Silicon Valley Lawyer Richard Dwyer Mulls Knox Fingering Patrick, Also Dewani Killing Wife

Comments

Really pleased to have come across these. A lawyer normally acting for the defense who actually does his homework on the cases - and sees guilt.

Its an open question whether Knox or Dewani are racist and maybe not an important one, but few others have come to the defense of the black men they dropped in the soup.

Neither the African-American community nor the Italian-American community have spoken out much on the case against Knox, though both communities sure have been slimed by those pro-Knox.

One of the oddest of all the media circuses we have seen was Oprah Winfrey, long a fighter for black Americans unfairly oppressed, sitting all disturbed with the Knox-Mellases.

She was clueless on the real case and it obviously didnt enter her mind that the entire Knox-Mellas effort was to blame Rudy Guede, a black man, for the entire crime.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/oprah_winfrey_please_discuss_the_case_with_jeanine_pirro_anne_coulter_/

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/oprah_perhaps_your_guests_on_todays_show_could_explain_this_very_tough/

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/oprah_gets_snowed_why_was_she_not_made_aware_of_the_race_card_being_pl/

I wish I had the transcript for the above video regarding Knox.

I’m offshore in the Arabian Gulf at the moment and internet is like the golden age of dial up.

Interesting that a usually defence lawyer sees guilt and lots of it.

This is of course what anyone of sound mind sees.  Basically a view minus the ridiculous PR spin.

Hi, Peter..really? Oprah does not do her homework?

Thanks for the piece….I like a person who is not afraid to speak, like Mr Dwyer, and you. thx

Richard Dwyer has it right imo.

Knox of course comes from an upwardly mobile family to whom it’s no doubt always been second nature to denigrate the underclass (black or otherwise) as a way of validating an otherwise precarious social standing.

Kids often learn and take on parental values by osmosis - Obknoxious likely started to absorb the ugly parental script right from pre-verbal infancy.

As has been said before it’s not just a question of the identified culprits getting their just deserts, what about the families that raised such tragically flawed humans?

Are they to get off scot-free? In any sane (and imaginary) society they would surely be on trial as much as their offspring, otherwise nothing is ever learnt.

The problem obviously won’t go away simply by locking up “bad” people and pretending they don’t have backgrounds that contribute to their malfeasance. Jail for the immediate perps is a necessary but far from sufficient outcome in terms of justice for all responsible.

Brilliant post Richard, thank you.

BRAVO to Mr. Dwyer!

As someone else pointed out under Dwyer’s YouTube video, he nails it as far as the difference between a false confession and a false accusation.

AK gave the latter. There was no “confession,” and she therefore doesn’t get to hide behind the whole false confession scenario. It was a false accusation, made to divert attention from looking at her.

Another great point Mr. Dwyer made was how a truly innocent person whose friend had been murdered would not want to distract the investigators with made-up tales.

The only reason to make up a tale to blame an innocent person is to distract from her own involvement.

Hi Odysseus

Important point you make about the sleazy Knox-Mellases deserving their own big comeuppances. That’s for sure.

A lot will happen in this direction after Cassation confirms Knox’s verdict and sentence and the legal limbo disappears and no more media punches need to be pulled.

if the Knox-Mellases make the extradition fight very nasty directly or though their gullible surrogates (and when is Chris Mellas in particular not very nasty?) they could find themselves facing seven plagues in terms of destroyed reoputation, civil suits, and criminal charges.

Robert Barnett and Ted Simon are supposed to be competent lawyers, and yet they let Knox publish false claims in her book which amount to more major felonies. They could go down. And Moore, Fischer and company operate outside the bounds of Italian law most of the time. They deserve to go down as much as anyone.

We should see many more like the bravve Richard Dwyer here speaking out against the legal outrage of the PR campaign.

Richard Dwyer absolutely has it right on most counts. Especially when you read the dreamlike story that Amanda actually wrote down about Patrick in her confession and, I believe, in her email, she was absolutely trying to redirect the police to a distracting, false lead, to draw attention away from herself.

However, I would say that Richard misses a finer point when he says Patrick was “randomly” selected as a gull. Patrick Lumumba wasn’t just the town black man to Amanda. Patrick was Amanda’s boss at Le Chic, and Patrick was not happy with Amanda. In fact, many signs point to the fact that Amanda was about to be upstaged by none other than Meredith herself at Le Chic bar, as Patrick stated he had been planning to hire Meredith as a bartender.

Having bartended in college, I can tell you this is perceived as EXTREMELY more prestigious than what Amanda was doing at Le Chic, which was not bartending. I daresay, the bartender is the most prestigious job in a college bar, so it can have a huge cool factor with the in crowd, which Amanda desperately wanted to be in but was quickly alienating herself from. Not to mention, Patrick has noted Amanda was on the brink of being fired, and like it or not no money meant fewer drugs for Amanda; the thought of this probably sent her into a panic.

So by fingering Patrick as the murderer, Amanda was really solving two of her problems at once.

First, she was throwing the police off her guilty trail. Second, she was enacting revenge on Patrick, who was about to be directly responsible for further alienating Amanda from the in crowd, which Amanda knew.

All of this during a time when Amanda’s drug use looked to be spiraling out of control, and also during a time when evidence shows her college “friends” had finally sensed how odd Amanda really was and were really starting to distance themselves from her—Meredith ignoring Amanda’s calls and texts on Halloween along with many other comments made by the people around her about her spontaneous (off-tune) singing, trysts with random men and so forth.

I would really love to see more on the psychology of Amanda, though I suppose it would be the psychology of a sociopath, as Richard Dwyer says. I personally suspect Amanda felt very justified in fingering Patrick given he had wronged her socially. Given the fact that it would throw police off the trail, as Richard says, she absolutely had to know that would happen, sad as it is that this happens.

I believe from her demeanor that Amanda has come to believe her own lies, because they take away any culpability she may otherwise have had. Like an abuser, as Richard comments, forces beyond Amanda’s control DROVE her to kill. It was not really HER fault (in her mind). I would guess that Amanda probably even feels now, if only Meredith and the others had been my friends, it wouldn’t have come to this.

If only Patrick hadn’t set out to hurt Amanda (never taking responsibility for the fact that Amanda didn’t do a good job working for Patrick), then she wouldn’t have HAD to exact revenge.

I think there is a lot clearer motive for fingering Patrick, and I think the motives behind sociopath Amanda killing Meredith are also blatant. Would love to hear from others more on motive in depth, and also psychology—also given Amanda acted like such a “mean girl” (i.e., tear down the enemy girl and I win mindset).

Richard made several key points regarding the Knoxes and Dewanis. One of them, the use of PR firms in a defense-like propaganda, stands out.

Both were quick to hire a PR agent to clean up their images. This had the unwelcome side-effects of generating more eye-balls into the case but that must have been assured by their advisers as a fair cost of doing business.

That Dewani could arrange a murder at such a short notice with such efficiency in a foreign land strongly suggests that he is an old hand in business. That he had the confidence means perhaps he has executed similar job successfully in the past. Thank you Richard, because I too was bothered with this point. That he got caught this time is an accident. The cab driver must have been boasting too much. We need not, but some credit must be due to the PR agent!

About our darling Amanda, the less said the better. Knoxes’ PR handle is better than Dewanis’ but there is lots of scope for improvement in the master plan. When the Sr. Knoxes heard the news, from the horse’s mouth, they understood perfectly and realized that not even the best lawyers, even in a third world country called Italy, can salvage the little darling. So they went to the PR route.

The only nuisance is her Italian boy friend of a week. He has clout and contacts and must be kept silent at all cost. Now that their darling is back home in Seattle, the nuisance must be got rid off safely, preferably in an environment friendly way. No violence, please.

The tendency to protect the children is natural for all parents but, just like all fundamental rights, you have no business to stand on other’s toe. I strongly believe that the parents know who did what and when and the number of people who suspect her of doing the crime is slowly but steadily increasing. And with a fixed piggy-bank, you cannot support a volunteer army indefinitely and slowly and surely some of them are beginning to ask questions. 

If she has chosen a fast track, she would have been home around this time. Did Knoxes made a bad decision?

Both Dewani and Knox should beg forgiveness for the last time. And walk into the prison. I don’t think they will get another chance.

Hi aj1880

That post on the dynamics in the bar and among among those around AK sure breaks new ground on the site and has great power to explain.

Patrick’s was actually a highly successful bar though the FOA wrongly claim that it was not, and he needed Knox a lot less than she needed him - especially as he took the considerable risk of hiring her with no work permit which all Americans require. 

Our Motives and Psychology posts, many by professionals and very good, can be reached via the right column, but there’s always been a certain lack of dots to connect. Also that dampening effect of a legal process not yet closed that I mentioned just above, which will go away later this year.

I for one thing there is still a huge amount to be said (“The Other Side”) not least to stop a big PR win and we know of some books and more reporting in the works.

As Chami says Knox and her team have made a boatload of bad decisions that have only dug them in way worse. Not going to Florence for the appeal just reeked of guilt and NO Italians saw that any other way.

Thanks Peter, I agree with you on connecting the overarching dots on the psychology and motives is something I’m very interested in, as it seems this is where the Knox PR team seems to always blow holes—and gain great traction, wrongly, here in the U.S.

For example, they might say—ah no, Meredith and all the college girls liked Amanda just fine. But I think the evidence clearly shows they did not like her and thought her VERY odd, which is a critical piece of info.

I guess I would like to see more of that drawn together in a complete picture, as I think it could just be the thing that changes the tenor of the U.S. media and perception of the U.S. public to finally to see Amanda for what she really is—a psychopath.

Between the full picture not being fleshed out and the U.S. media not covering it comprehensively, people really think she is an innocent little flower here and it’s sad ... and misguided.

Hi, aj1880,

The quick take on AK’s psycho backstory is that she was NOT daddy’s little princess. Dad left for the new wife and the “substitutechildren” (AK’s own terminology.)

Therefore she had a deep, festering approval deficit. She needed men, by the boatload, to approve of her. Girls did not recognise her physical gifts, but went even further than unacceptance, into disapproval of her personality, habits and hygeine. Patrick dared to disrespect her efforts at work.

Among the druggy males, she groomed a new, instant fan club. Her resentment against those who judged her reached full boil, and was released in a flurry of dope and knives.

Oh yeah, and she was raised to believe she was white and ergo, all-capable, superior, untouchable, even as she flouted the efforts of her German relatives to keep her suitably employed, pre- Perugia.

The center of a dangerous, swirling galaxy of one.

Thanks for the post Peter - I am very happy to hear someone like Richard Dwyer speaking out about this issue. His voice is a good counterpoint to the image of ABC’s Robin Roberts reaching across the table and holding AK’s hand, although it has far far less PR impact.

I know Oprah is oblivious, but does Robin Roberts understand that AK blamed a black man on purpose, to throw the police off track? Sorry, dumb question.

@aj1880:

Thank you so much for your comment here and also your previous comments. I fully agree that AK “was really solving two of her problems at once.” I also agree with you that “My guess is that she picked a black man to blame (given Rudy is black?) to throw the police off Rudy’s trail? Is that also so Rudy would not implicate Amanda and Raffaelle? I guess it is that simple.”

Some of these simple things make the most sense: the mean girl (here more properly ‘psychopath’) syndrome leading to a revenge killing, the fingering of Patrick to slightly cover RG’s tracks so that he would not implicate RS or AK.

Things truly would devolve into simple truths quickly if each of these three were to testify directly against the others. And of course that is the main reason why RS would not separate his trial from AK - too risky - the truth needs to remain hidden.

Please post more!

Hi aj1880

The best entry point into these arguments is not necessarily to prove from the get-go that Knox is some kind of a nut. 

The prosecution never tried to prove that Knox is a nut and on motive (with the exception of Massei who I think blinked) they did a pretty good job without doing that: a dangerous group hazing with drugs and knives that grew out of jealousy and fear.

You yourself in your first comment above described pretty well the known dynamic between the girls, and you added something important in hypothesizing about the pecking order in the bar.

At trial Knox all by herself in effect made the argument that she is a nut. Few of those you argue with were around at the time of the trial and they have a very wrong idea of how the trial went.

Knox sounded daffy and callous in her several interventions and looked that in the way she dressed (once in a Beatles tee-shirt) and beamed at the crowd suggesting she was having a really good time.

Her two days on the stand were an unmitigated disaster, because the court audience was presented with the spectacle of a really callous over-talky sneering tough bruiser of a girl who one would not want to run into on a dark night, arguing that because some woman she could not even name had maybe laid one finger on her during her witness interview and said “boo” that made her so utterly terrified she fingered Patrick in nervous collapse.

She was cooked in the eyes of the jury right then, and the defenses were despondent and lackluster from then on. They only regained a head of steam when they played a trick to get a clown of a judge, Hellmann, they knew they could roll with more dirty tricks during the appeal.

We’ve had various posts on psychopaths and psychopathia in the past. Here are three.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/Knox_Anthony_and_van_der_sloot_why_some_murder_suspects_revel/
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/strange_tale_of_the_ex_new_york_times_reporter_who_christian_longo/
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/master_manipulators_masks_and_murder_parallels_of_the_amanda_knox_and_/

There were some posts on Susan Anthony and Jodi Arias as well.  However, the simple label “psychopath” came to seem too much of a blunderbuss approach as we learned more both about both Knox and psychological science.

Our posting psychologist SeekingUnderstanding in particular has introduced a lot of nuances from the improving science, though her analysis of Knox’s book and public statements gave Knox no breaks.

Also we learned that for several weeks after Meredith died Knox was quite trusting of Mignini who tried to help her a little in return (he avoided saying the murder was premeditated, though many prosecutors would have argued it was).

Knox’s own book describes how Knox’s parents and (especially) lawyers had to demonize Mignini for her so that she would stop being attracted to him and adhere to their nasty, hard line defense.

This didnt look like full-blown psychopathic behavior from Day One. However SeekingUnderstanding suspects the Knox family and “friends” who latched onto her sight unseen have done her mentality no end of harm. With her boiling anger which she cannot conceal, she may be more dangerous now than at any time.

Who can forget Susan Smith, who murdered her own children then blamed a black man for it?

In Racial Hoax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_hoax “Katheryn Russell-Brown in her book The Color of Crime: Racial Hoaxes, White Fear, Black Protectionism, Police Harassment and Other Macroaggressions (1998). A racial hoax can be performed by a person of any race, against a person of any race.[1] It has been routinely performed against African Americans.[2]”

And, “In the United States there has been little legal response to racial hoaxes”

There is a lot of evidence that Knox was influenced by the cultural milieu that keeps this phenomena alive in the US.

But in the end, her motive for murdering Meredith was jealousy, plain and simple.

And so it goes. I remember being taken to task for suggesting that this was racially motivated by the society in which she grew up in. But it seems to be so. One point though. As I have mentioned elsewhere, this will not stop until Knox goes to jail. It amazes me that the Knox supporters, who with no valid information other than wishful thinking, and what they have been told of course, can defend what is a hopeless cause and the indefensible. They even make up stuff and prove their panic by describing events such as Knox being interrogated for days on end even though Knox herself has stated it did no occur. Lastly I too am convinced that Knox is far more dangerous now than she was seven years ago. It would not take much to turn her since it requires no strength at all to stick a knife into someone.

I recall Guede saying of the fleeing Sollecito after the murder:
“black man found, black man guilty” or words to that effect. It is obvious they had thought the murder well through.
It gives credence to the ‘blame/frame the black man’ view.

I believe that was the moment Guede realised he’d been set up - suckered.
One can imagine such a plan created by an arrogant self entitled moron like Sollecito.
The same goes for Knox.

Hi Grahame,

I believe Knox has always been dangerous.
I don’t quite know about more dangerous than 7 years ago though.
It appears that she needs/has always needed extremely close supervision from her mother primarily.
First time off the leash for a short time away from her mother and she stabs her housemate to death.
How more dangerous can a person get?
Perhaps now having seen Knox performing on her own in video’s and at parties and such, shills of the kind like the hysterical Steve Moore will be thinking again about gladly having his daughter sleep over in the same bedroom as Knox.
But then again perhaps not.

Thanks Peter for pointing me back to those points on motive and psychology. I re-read them including the comments, and in the context of this email thread discussion, I see new dots to connect.

It is often very helpful to re-read posts on this site. Thanks also, Mimi for your comment. I think you hit on all the salient points of the situation.

Where I get stuck personally sometimes is in a similar question from this post:

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/master_manipulators_masks_and_murder_parallels_of_the_amanda_knox_and_/

The question was about Scott Petersen, and it is:

“If Scott Peterson was so unhappy in his marriage, why didn’t he just get a divorce? Experts on the criminal mind say the answer may lie in what lurked beneath Scott Peterson’s charming veneer — a psychopathic personality.’ When you say you’re going to get a divorce, everyone knows that it’s a long, tedious process. The psychopath wants the short-term solution,” said San Diego forensic psychologist Reid Meloy.’”

I do get stuck on this same line of thinking with Amanda. Why didn’t she just move out? Why didn’t she move in with Rafaelle to get away from it all? Why didn’t she contact her parents for more money? Why didn’t she get a work permit for Italy? Another job?

Because she wanted what seemed to be, anyway, a short-term solution—to absolutely everything.

And I believe it goes further, too, that this type of person can’t let go of their own self-importance. Because Amanda is such a narcissist, all the injustices she perceived piling up on her absolutely warranted retribution, in her twisted mind.

The wrongs loomed incomprehensibly large to her because SHE loomed incomprehensibly large to herself—overshadowing everything and everyone else around her, minimizing them to her to make them no more significant to her than an inanimate object. A bag of trash to throw away or a physical impediment to remove. Or a vehicle to further her objectives and do her bidding.

Even to this day when she speaks of Rafaelle, it’s sort of, oh well he got sucked into this, sucks to be him (with an undercurrent of, if you speak, Rafaelle, I’ll take you down, trust me).

I guess it just never ceases to take my breath away that types like Amanda and Scott are so deeply devoid of humanity.

Whatever the nuances of why Amanda did what she did, I still very much believe that she to this day believes that what she did was warranted, totally justified, and therefore she is in some sick twisted way innocent in her mind—and therefore sees herself, not Meredith, as a victim.

Frightening.

Hello aj1880,

I agree these personalities are frightening - not as obvious ‘monsters’ but in a much more chilling way.

It is frightening that so many people can be taken in, deceived and misled by the disturbed and disordered ( and often charming) personality type.

It is frightening that such ones can convince themselves, and others, of their own ‘version of reality’.

The ‘immediate gratification’ syndrome is a powerful characteristic. As is the quick thinking ability to invert the blame squarely onto the victim.

This is a real story: There was a scene in a prison, where prisoners were waiting in a queue for food. Suddenly there was a disturbance, and one man fell to the ground, dying from a knife wound. The immediate response of the perpetrator?

” He shouldn’t have been standing so close. It’s his fault he got killed - he was in my space”.

It numbs one to hear of it, doesn’t it…

Going back to Knox , the one I would be most frightened for would be a child - if one were to be born to Amanda ... I believe the process could trigger or re-trigger some frightening ( and very destructive) emotions.

These major life events - births, marriages, deaths - do reach somewhere profound in us.

The levels of aggression in Amanda astound me.

The constant sniping against the Kerchers, the disrespect towards Meredith, as if she was just an appendage for her overweening narcissism, and now she gathers a crew of enablers around her.

Still a very angry person, she’s learned nothing, much like Bruce Fischer 😊

Hello Ergon

If AK is the personality she appears to be from observation and analysis, then she can’t learn. She simply cannot.

She may be able to alter how she comes across - image manipulation, - but that’s not learning in the sense you or I mean.

Hi, Seeking, another person who appears to not be able to learn anything is Amanda Knox attack dog Bruce Fischer, who seems to er, follow people around 😊

He showed up in this article on Examiner dot COM with some very angry things to say.

http://www.examiner.com/article/amanda-knox-and-social-media-manipulation#comment-1312017229

(scroll up from there and you’ll get an idea 😊

Good article, Ergon…  needs to be widely read.

I am a professional teacher for ~30 years and I strongly believe that while you can impart information to adult students, we cannot do much about the basic traits that make us a better human.

It is possible to control, and to a large extent self-control too, the aggressive “spirit” present in many of us but perhaps removing it completely is impossible. We are often vulnerable to our own emotions and we are hopelessly incompetent to control ourselves in many of the most critical times. Faced with a challenge, we perform our worst.

Is it really surprising that Bruces and Amandas are not a rare species?

What is also not surprising is how easily they manipulate others.

@Ergon

I have sometimes observed the manipulator and the manipulatee at work. On a rather small scale, the people often need support for some idea or a pet project. Whereas I would love to see a full transparent disclosure and open debate, it often ends up like a political campaign. It is rather fun to see intellectuals acting like a puppet. It does happen at all levels- I am rather unsurprised.

I read the debate at the examiner.com and am impressed with the tenacity of the leader of the injusticedotcom.

Well the leader of the free Amanda knox world has to work harder I guess then 😊

Where next:

Or to next entry With Radioactive Knox Campaign Not On Agenda,  US & Italian Leaders Give Each Other Big Boosts

Or to previous entry Italy’s 13th Foreign Oscar Winner Shows A Very Beautiful Side Of Rome