Tuesday, March 18, 2014

Human Rights Group “Human Rights Watch” Gives An Approving Nod To Italy

Posted by Peter Quennell



[Above: Armando Spataro, the chief prosecutor in the 2009 trial in Milan; CIA operatives all absent]


Human rights groups like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International keep an eye on the Italian courts, as they do the courts of most countries.

When it comes to Italy, they rarely have anything to complain about. Italy has a firm high-profile police presence but when the playing field is level the Italian courts are known to be very fair and prison rates are among the world’s lowest.

Nothing is seen to be broken..

The same applies to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg which receives mind-numbing numbers of spurious appeals from Italy (an unfortunate circumstance for Knox) which repeatedly jump the gun (as Knox’s appeal did) before the Italian legal process is over.  But the ECHR only very rarely finds that Italian courts did anything wrong.

In an excellent report by the AP’s Colleen Barry (not our favorite reporter in Florence, but now we have hopes for her) the New York-based Human Rights Watch has just praised Italy for persevering against the CIA operatives who executed an example of extraordinary rendition - kidnapping for torture in a third country of suspected terrorists.

Cassation had just confirmed three of the guilty sentences among the 26 for American operatives earlier handed down:

“It is really a seminal case. It set a very important precedent that unfortunately has not been followed yet by any other countries,” said Judith Sunderland, senior Western Europe researcher for Human Rights Watch. “We certainly hold it as an example how a national judiciary can in fact get to the bottom of an unlawful rendition.”

The Obama administration renounced the Bush administration’s practice of extraordinary rendition, and neither the CIA or State Department seems to have done very much to help the CIA officers who were being prosecuted.

Alessia Sorgato, who was one of four court-appointed defense lawyers, complained the U.S. government had not responded to requests for help to defend their clients.

None of the court-appointed lawyers had any contact with their clients. U.S. officials only granted two of the defendants permission to seek their own counsel, toward the end of the trial…

Leader Robert Seldon Lady did possibly get some minor official help to disappear recently within the United States, but has since spoken out against the CIA and State Department bitterly. So did other CIA operatives.

At the same time, the Italian government (think Ministry of Justice) has been fairly passive, and allowed the courts to increasingly confirm the convictions, except for several Italian ones (they were declared military as was one American).

These outcomes from Cassation may not result in former CIA operatives ending up in Italian prisons. But life for perps on the run can be made hell worldwide under an Interpol Red Notice. So civil rights groups are not unhappy.

Amanda Knox, learn something.


[Below: human rights groups in Italy kept up pressure]




Comments

Looking through old Frank Sfarzo pieces http://web.archive.org/web/20110331081341/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/

How did every one know by March 25, 2011 there was “no DNA on the knife”? Conti and Vechiotti only had it there 3 days!

Posted by Ergon on 03/18/14 at 10:16 AM | #

Hi Ergon

Good catch. Even the prosecution knew that C&V had leaked to the defense - the defense unwittingly revealed it. Comodi made a sarcastic comment about it. C&V have begun to get their comeuppance as has Sforza.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/18/14 at 10:25 AM | #

Here is Nigel Scott, a rampant Knox supporter, pretentiously informing the Italian Ambassador in London the exact opposite of the real Italian situation. Scott doesnt know that appeals are automatic in Italy and a spurious bid to the ECHR (which is known to be irritated at the sheer number of them) is almost equally automatic.

http://groundreport.com/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-letter-to-the-italian-ambassador-in-london/

The case has become infamous, not for the tragic nature of the crime itself, but because it is the highest profile miscarriage of justice in the world today.  It shames Italy and will undoubtedly discourage students and tourists from visiting.

Italy has the dubious distinction of being the Western European country with the highest number of negative judgments made against it by the European Court of Human Rights, by a considerable margin.  Its latest show trial is worthy of North Korea or Iran and takes incompetence, corruption and face saving to new levels.  Italy has a broken justice system and the lives and rights of innocent people are being trampled on daily.  Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are merely the most visible examples of this process.

Italy must tremble…. What does Scott do exactly? Sell medical items? Certainly he is no researcher or lawyer. He knows zero about the real Italy, which in other posts he clearly hates with a vengeance.

I wonder where the Ambassador filed that letter.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/18/14 at 10:29 AM | #

God, Nigel Scott is a self-important ass.  A one-time record dealer in South London (in a street market, one wonders?), now fetching up as a nobody councillor on an infamously loony North London local council. What a pathetic figure he cuts with his hilarious delusions of grandeur. He seems to see himself as some kind of statesman, lecturing Italy on justice. The prognosis is not good gentlemen.

Even more worrying is that Scott is not alone - this kind of grandiosity is endemic in councils like Haringey, filled as they are with members returned on derisory percentages of the electorate. The low turnout makes it relatively easy for these wannabe idiots to gain seats and indulge their fantasies of omnipotence. The blame ultimately lies with the apathetic local electorates.

Posted by Odysseus on 03/18/14 at 11:53 AM | #

Hi Odysseus.

You are saying that it’s the UK local town council system is broken? Nigel Scott is describing his own reign of terror?

That gave me some grim amusement.  Three years ago Kermit took exception to Scott’s grandiosity and poor grasp of the facts.

Kermit wrote to a magazine which didnt fact-check before publishing Scott. As has happened before, we got an apologetic note back thanking us.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/our_call_to_editors_of_a_london_magazine_to_check_facts_before_propaga/

No more from Nigel Scott appeared in that magazine.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/18/14 at 02:23 PM | #

I would say it’s only broken in certain areas…where the communities are disjointed, or decadent, or despairing. It seems to result in apathy towards politics.

Where the local councils do work, with high electoral involvement, and pride in the town or city, - they work well. Our own city, for example, wins prizes for its top-notch recycling, and low use of landfills.

Did laugh myself at Odysseus’ comment…spot-on.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/18/14 at 02:39 PM | #

I do think “powerlessnesss” is a real and growing problem in the world as real economic and political power gravitates to the very few.

The internet is encouraging some to puff themselves up and seek to leap to the head of the parade. There has been a lot of this in the Knox-Sollecito movement (think Preston, Sforza, Girlanda, Moore, Fischer) and certainly they have vyed with one another to come down hardest on those meanie Italians.

The better way to go is to be brought into some really constructive processes with long range visions and a good amount of status and psychic and material reward for everybody.

It is exactly at these local levels that some of these movements have the most startling successes. SeekingUnderstanding describes one in England, and as one cruises the United States one comes across a number of others - I’d put it at one in ten at the moment.

With networking between them to share lessons learned, which is often great fun, much of the US could have a far better economy. Empowerment is not really a zero-sum game.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/18/14 at 03:27 PM | #

@Peter @SeekingUnderstanding

I am notoriously cynical about politics, local or national - but I’m clearly not alone since turnout for all elections seems too be declining over time. Still, maybe I should blame the lack of “the vision thing”,  as George W. so memorably described it, rather than apathetic voters: they’re apathetic maybe because there’s nothing inspirational on offer.

Thanks for the reference to Kermit’s letter which is very apropos.

Glad to hear you live in a well run area SeekingUnderstanding, I suppose things are better here as well compared with the 20+ years I lived in Haringey.

Anyway, roll on the vision thing. George W. will find it all a bit perplexing but he’ll have to cope -:)

Posted by Odysseus on 03/18/14 at 03:40 PM | #

@Pete

“The better way to go is to be brought into some really constructive processes with long range visions and a good amount of status and psychic and material reward for everybody.”

That’s a very sound prescription I would say.

Posted by Odysseus on 03/18/14 at 04:07 PM | #

News is in that the CSM definitely WILL simply shelve the complaint against Judge Nencini. Storm in a teacup.

Meanwhile Knox’s behavior is getting odder and odder.

http://www.latinopost.com/articles/4950/20140318/amanda-knox-case-knox-seen-bicycling-around-seattle-prior-to-preparing-murder-conviction-appeal.htm

A clumsy girl whose affliction is that she cant read people. To her they are all demons or angels and she cant discern which is which.

Angels would tell her that the valid grounds for appeal to Cassation in this final round could be written on the back of an envelope.

She is doing now what she should have done and presented at Florence. Cassation had set strict limits, but she could have won a point or two. So could Sollecito if he had had a less muddled strategy and better lawyers.

Knox’s Italian lawyers wanted her in Florence but her absurd book and multiple hurtful remarks in other media had left her too scared to go there.

Well she may face a long new career as a jailhouse lawyer. She could guide others to do 180 degrees the opposite of what she did. And realise that Meredith really was an angel.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/18/14 at 04:16 PM | #

I think this is why her lawyers went to see her in Seattle, Pete. To plead with her to show up in Florence. It would have made an impression on the court, who knows?

But both she and Sollecito were in a funk over the failure of their PR efforts, and definitely were scared an order of preventative arrest might be issued.

I don’t think that was going to happen, BTW. Not until the final ruling by Cassazione. No courage whatsoever, then telling the court she’s scared of it? Very strange indeed.

Posted by Ergon on 03/18/14 at 07:28 PM | #

@Ergon

Yes, I do wonder about the psychology involved in that strange email to Judge Nencini (good news from Pete about him, Incidentally).

It’s almost as if she is reaching out unconsciously to an authoritative paternal figure to help her, explaining she is afraid, and asking for help with that.

It seems her mind is confused, as it is not the function of a judge in the Florence court to understand her state of mind at the moment, and help her with it. That is her responsibility.

I can understand why he gave the email little time. His focus was entirely elsewhere, and he was gravely concerned with delivering justice. He had not forgotten Meredith.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/18/14 at 08:20 PM | #

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2582827/Amanda-Knox-rides-bike-local-Goodwill-store-prepares-appeal-conviction-murder-Meredith-Kercher.html

This is news??  Wow! she went to the Goodwill (a place where you drop off your old clothes to get sold again at rock bottom prices).  Maybe she went there to get some more of her “fashionable” clothes that she likes to wear.  I guess the incredible story is that she wore bright red or pink socks while biking. Actually she dressed so much better when she was going into court all the time.  Now it’s the hippie in Seattle look - except when she is appearing on television.  Not that any of it matters but her looks are always the news item.  Wonder how Rafa is holding up these days?

Posted by believing on 03/19/14 at 12:23 AM | #

I used to shop at Goodwill stores and other thrift shops. Later God began to deal with me to sow more, and a harvest of finances finally came, so I don’t fault Knox for living thriftily if she’s doing right with the money she saves by her cost-cutting.

I have also shopped in Harrod’s and expensive stores, traveled the world and stayed at fine hotels in all brand new clothes, tipping generously and splashing money left and right out of sheer joy. Last spring I bought a house and paid cash, have rented it out. Last week I bought blouses in Macy’s at a mall near this nice hotel I’ve been staying in for a week, eating well and watching big screen TV. I’m traveling in springtime, enjoying plenty after famine.

I think Knox should have tithed on her book money. If she sows good seed she will begin to heal the damage she did. She should repay Lumumba even in partial payments if she is truly humble. Her Goodwill purchases are good to help her local community. She should always wash the clothes in hot hot water and soap first before wearing. Being clean is the main thing new or used.

IMHO, she should be sowing to Seattle Prep and other ministries. I’m a walking witness to King David’s word. He said, “I was young and now am old, yet I’ve never seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed begging for bread.”

I think Knox’s prison stay did lower her self-esteem, maybe she doesn’t feel she deserves nice shops and high quality clothes. She could be influenced by university friends. Lots of college students try to live cheap. I took a job in my women’s dorm to help pay expenses. Also Knox may have a bit of the Scots thrift. Many of them settled in Seattle. I believe her Goodwill shopping does reflect her real fear of losing her money which dwindled quickly on legal debts. I wonder what size checks she actually wrote to Ghirgha and Carlo d. Vedova. They want a reward for their suffering.

She claims she only has enough money left to live on for a year or so. To live within one’s means is wise, it frees up money to invest or give which multiplies back to meet your needs. Never eat your seed, sow it and believe for your harvest in due season.

This will work for Knox or anybody, giving brings a release. It got me completely out of debt and despair.

Posted by Hopeful on 03/19/14 at 09:54 AM | #

Hi, Hopeful, any claims that Knox may have made about her financial situation must be taken with a grain of salt, considering her past history of lying.

Earlier reports indicated she was paid the full $3.8 million advance in full, plus an undisclosed amount under the table for various media exclusives.

The first thing she did when she came back was to hide her assets, to render them judgment proof against any civil action brought against her by the Kerchers.

PS: I do not recognize the make, but she appears to be riding a custom made Italian racing bike, which run to between $ 4-6k smile

Posted by Ergon on 03/19/14 at 12:27 PM | #

There ought to be a way to ensure the money due to Patrick is compulsorily taken from her assets, and given to him - whether it’s some at a time or a lump sum.
How can anyone support a position where this is not paid, whatever they think about the murder?
It’s a proven wrong and felony, and even Knox knows it was wrong, and caused much hardship.

If AK wants or needs her self esteem to improve, she could try doing the right thing.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/19/14 at 12:47 PM | #

Hi Ergon
I did a little research on the bike and from the logo on the front it looks like a liberty bike.
AKA cube. These retail in about $3.000 top end to about 1’000 at the bottom. The other clue is the de-railer gear with the gear change attached to the middle frame. This includes a double change wheel.
In less expensive bikes the gear change is on the handle bars, at least it was when I was doing this discipline. Also the water bottle holder which is part of a package deal of course. Also the tires are racing soft. You can tell that by the color of the inside rim on the tire. This is new bike. Not bad for someone who’s broke. But then whenever I see or read anything concerning Knox and her behavior I treat it with contempt.
Cheers

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 03/19/14 at 01:53 PM | #

Hi, Hopeful, you mean well, but let’s not forget this woman is a murderer, continues to lie about it, and has shown no repentance. Bike or no bike, “humble” or not, she has not paid any price.

Doesn’t matter where she goes, doesn’t matter what she does, doesn’t matter how she spends money—her place is in prison, period.

Not long ago she was a stoned loser who almost couldn’t afford a student’s rent in Italy—now she has money because she killed Meredith and brazenly wrote a book about it, should we give her tips for a rewarding financial future?

Posted by Bjorn on 03/19/14 at 03:16 PM | #

@SeekingUnderstanding

“If AK wants or needs her self esteem to improve, she could try doing the right thing”.

True, but we know of course that this strange child/woman is weirdly bereft of any idea what the right thing is in any situation, that’s why she’s in such a desperate fix.

I also like your point, regarding the email to Nencini, that “...it’s almost as if she is reaching out unconsciously to an authoritative paternal figure to help her, explaining she is afraid, and asking for help with that”. I wonder if something similar was going on in her otherwise strange relationship with the priest in Capanne (“Don Saulo”). Had she been a Catholic he would no doubt have been able to ask if she wanted to confess any sins. As it was he just seemed happy to be a father figure.

Mignini also seemed to sense that he was being asked to fulfill a paternal role,  for a while.

Curt Knox set a lot in train when he walked out of the family but in fairness how could he have foreseen the extent of the havoc his absence might create?

Posted by Odysseus on 03/19/14 at 03:19 PM | #

Hi Hopeful,

You don’t seem to grasp the gravity of Amanda Knox’s crimes - she was convicted of sexual assault and murder. Shopping at Goodwill, living thriftily and sowing good seed - whatever that means - will never heal the damage Knox has done. She is a sadistic sex killer who along with Sollecito and Guede wiped Meredith from existence in the cruellest and most horrific way possible. 

You wrote about Ghirga and Della Vedova about suffering. They’ve made lots of money from Meredith’s murder. Meredith suffered terribly - her last moments were beyond hell on earth. Her family suffer every day and will suffer for the rest of their lives.

Posted by The Machine on 03/19/14 at 03:19 PM | #

Hi Odysseus,
Well, perhaps she could make a start by doing the legal thing…what is legally and lawfully required of her. I agree it is something more to be able to grasp the morality behind a law.

It’s a noted characteristic, incidentally, of narcissistic disorder to believe that ‘ordinary ’ laws don’t apply to them - they give themselves an exemption.

Regarding the father figure seeking, I’ve noticed too it’s somewhat of a theme with her. She focuses in on men differently..I noticed it when she was interviewed by male commentators - there’s different eye movement, body language (she moves forward towards them) and a more engaged tone in her voice.
Curt Knox obviously, as most people, has his flaws of character, but there is always a dynamic between two, and Edda’s relationship issues would reveal a lot.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/19/14 at 03:55 PM | #

@SeekingUnderstanding

“It’s a noted characteristic, incidentally, of narcissistic disorder to believe that ‘ordinary ’ laws don’t apply to them - they give themselves an exemption.” Interesting, thank you.

I know someone (a family member) who I’ve suspected for a while has NPD, and that characteristic suits him to a tee. He regularly has brushes with the law yet nothing ever changes - clearly the negative feedback on his behaviour doesn’t mean the same to him as it would to mere mortals.

Posted by Odysseus on 03/19/14 at 04:15 PM | #

NPD : and of course they’re always the first out front to start claiming their own ‘rights’. The old ‘rights without responsibility’ position…
Or never mind other people’s rights. Sometimes it’s as if those close to the NPD person are simply invisible, - as a human being, anyway.

Meredith’s human rights - what happened to these?

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/19/14 at 07:29 PM | #

I actually read the Human Rights document in detail the other day. It was very interesting, and contained one or two minor surprises, in reading the actual wording.
Worth doing - if only because it is often quoted only in a negative context, when, for example, prisoners are trying to wriggle free of a duty they would rather not have.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/19/14 at 08:05 PM | #

What’s interesting about the whole trial is that so much original work has been done by what amounts to a group of dedicated volunteers who spent thousands of hours obtaining the original trial documents and translating them, then adding the expertise of real lawyers, doctors, psychologists, media specialists, biochemists and above all, extraordinary people who wanted justice for the Kerchers, and that, an innocent victim not be forgotten.

We have always been pro truth, and thus, published whatever source document we could obtain, unlike the defense, which only published excerpts and biased interpretations with which they bamboozled ‘experts’ who hopped on a media bandwagon; they should have known better, and if their reputation is now shot, they did it to themselves.

At this point, what we see is the last gasps of a failed PR campaign.

Posted by Ergon on 03/20/14 at 12:29 AM | #

Hi Machine

Hopeful’s post was satirical, showing Knox how absurd it would be to go there. Such ridicule can be very effective against Knox’s “forces”. Kermit uses it too.

Hopeful has delivered plenty of “straight whacks” and generally organizes all the long posts on Meredith.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/20/14 at 05:28 AM | #

Hi SeekingUnderstanding

“Curt Knox obviously, as most people, has his flaws of character, but there is always a dynamic between the two…”

Interesting that you see that. I hadnt noticed it. In her book she starts off hinting at a lifetime of tension between them. Curt’s real beef was with Edda, he pushed it too far in defaulting on child support, Knox has more reason to be grateful to Edda.

I’m not suggesting the same syndrome as Anders Breivek, the Norwegian mass killer, but in this very interesting read which we linked to, Breivek respected his father (who treated him like a dog) and despised his mother (who slaved really hard to give him a decent upbringing).

https://sites.google.com/site/avner1943/norwegian-tragedy

Knox seems to have latent tensions with almost all other women though as women generally are they seem mild to supportive toward her. Maybe because of her tin ear she got brushed off or used and discarded by a lot of men, including in Patrick’s bar, and has a fear she cant hold on to the best of them.

NPD is a perverse master.

Courtesy mainly of Catnip we have the Sarzanini book on Knox’s psychology in English and are seeking ways to post it. One interesting thing: there was obvious irritation at Chris Mellas’s needling.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/does_her_leaked_prison_diary_talk_to_knoxs_mental_condition/

None of this was brought up in defense and its not prosecution’s job to be more interested. The 2008 psychological tests of RS and AK in Capanne did suggest to all officialdom “buyer beware”. So mnay things, like this, that the American audience is unaware of.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/20/14 at 05:55 AM | #

Hi Pete,
I agree with you, especially :
‘Knox seems to have latent tensions with almost all other women ‘.
I would even say - and this is intuitive - that perhaps this expresses in a greater propensity to lie, and weave ‘nice’ stories when conversing with women.
I noticed the micro expression of ‘duping delight’ (indicating when someone gets pleasure from taking people in, or seemingly successful deception) more often when AK was being interviewed by women - especially sympathetic ones.

This in turn makes me wonder whether a man (with a natural but non-aggressive authority) would have a much greater chance of breaking through with her - if anyone could pause the lying. Which also ties in with her ‘appealing’ tone to the prosecutor (at an early point), and then Judge Nencini.

Knowing the psychology involved may not be essential for the administering of justice, but it does help us makes sense of a dreadful situation.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/20/14 at 09:37 AM | #

Looking forward to the translation of the Sarzanini book, Peter.

Posted by Ergon on 03/20/14 at 10:37 AM | #

Further to looking into the increasingly curious timing of all interactions between Boise State U. Professor Greg Hampikian and the Hellman courts ‘independent experts’ Conti and Vecchiotti, I see that even though they leaked their findings in March 2011, they spent all of April 2011 demanding the ‘raw EDF files’ from Drssa. Stefanoni, this after Prof. Hampikian impressed upon the defense team “how important it was to get a copy of the raw data files”.

Proof of illegal contact? We shall see, once the investigation of C & V gets under way.

Posted by Ergon on 03/20/14 at 01:03 PM | #

Knox sees other woman as rivals for the affections of men.

That is why she is jealous of all of them and Meredith in particular of course, since Meredith was several thousand times better in every department than Knox was/is or could ever hope to be.

This is why every man Knox beds is to her a triumph over her personal view that she is no good/ugly/a failure etc:

Her father abandoned her and she has never psychologically got over that but keeps on trying to attract men and or woman by her attempts to better herself, at least in her eyes. This she does not really believe possible hence the ever ongoing con game she has developed to hide the fact that she really is second hand goods and always will be. Creative writing indeed. Meredith was far superior in that as well.

No! Knox sees other woman as a threat because most other woman will see through her straight away. Men don’t since they are sucked in by the poor Little helpless me approach.

Face it Knox is soiled property or as my mother used to say
“Second rate breeding stock.”

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 03/20/14 at 01:56 PM | #

I can’t for the life of me see on what grounds Amanda Knox believes her human rights have been violated - especially having been tried in one of the most thorough and pro-defendant systems in the world.
Her appeal to the ECHR is yet another bizarre act in the bizarre world of the Knox/Mellas family and friends and in all likelihood will be thrown out with the rest of the trash.
Waiting to be heard but then refuses to attend her appeal.
Go figure.

Posted by DF2K on 03/21/14 at 08:38 AM | #

These are the fundamental areas of Human Rights, in case anyone is interested :

Right to life
Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment
Right to liberty and security
Freedom from slavery and forced labour
Right to a fair trial
No punishment without law
Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence
Freedom of thought, belief and religion
Freedom of expression
Freedom of assembly and association
Right to marry and start a family
Protection from discrimination in respect of these rights and freedoms
Right to peaceful enjoyment of your property
Right to education
Right to participate in free elections

(They are also subject to Restrictions:  e.g.the Right of Freedom of expression is modified by consideration of other people’s Rights, for example others’ Right to Respect for their private life, and peaceful enjoyment of their property and possessions. etc.)

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/21/14 at 10:29 AM | #

And this is the link where the above came from:
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/human-rights/what-are-human-rights/the-human-rights-act/

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/21/14 at 10:31 AM | #

I just read a piece in the Seattle times concerning Knox which is headed

‘AMANDA KNOX HEADING FOR AN EXTRADITION FIGHT”

It makes interesting reading particularly since it’s from Seattle because it states quite clearly the reasons for extradition and the process. The authors Pete Yost and Gene Johnson, published it for a second time since originally it was from the Associated Press in Washington. The fact that it has been published once more in Seattle. (Hotbed of the FOA) is indicative, particularly since as it says on the bottom, someone called Lara Jakes contributed to it. It would not surprise me at all if the groundswell of support for the extradition of Knox gained more speed.

I believe as more of the truth comes out that this will happen.

Some of the FOA people are hooting because Italy has not made any formal request for extradition. They are calling the Italian court cowards for having folded under the pressure they ....Imagine…. is being brought to bare upon the Italian government by the US state department.

They do not understand that any extradition request will not come about until after the full disclosure from the Italian court as to the reasons for the guilty verdict. Then there is another process to go through of course which will take perhaps the balance of the year.

Point is, twenty eight and a half years will not diminish due to the passage of time. So when Knox eventually goes to jail her sentence will start then. The longer she waits the worse off she will be.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 03/21/14 at 07:24 PM | #

For what it’s worth Knox bike looks like a ‘All City’ bike because of the logo in front. I thought it was a liberty bike but the logo was wrong retail about $1900 top end to $1000 bottom end.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 03/21/14 at 07:31 PM | #

Some commenter named ‘Nasim’ on Amanda Knox’s blog got Bruce Fischer thinking it’s me again, rather like the idiot Moores keep accusing “HarryRag/The Machine of being John Kercher Sr. then when that wouldn’t wash, Jr.

My response on PMF dot Net: Hi Stefan, thanks for bringing to my attention. No, it isn’t me, so I guess ‘Nasim’ will have to speak up for himself or herself, it’s a name that can be of either sex.

Like my name,
Naseer wink

I have never posted on AK’s blog, under any name. I was asked this (before your time) and said no I wasn’t, so he should know, but ol’ Bruce never was one to stop repeating his unproven passive aggressive assertions, like how Professor Vinci ‘shredded’ the prosecution. Like Napoleon did at Waterloo, I guess smile

Bruce Fischer, as co-admin of the pro-Amanda Knox site Injustice-Anywhere knows full well I don’t ‘run’ PMF .Net. I am only one volunteer on a team of moderators, admins, and contributors who make up this site and are part of the larger pro-Meredith Kercher community. He has tried to malign the arguments made here by attacking me personally, and if some fall for that, not my problem.

Another person, who goes by the name Betty_Ninja on Twitter, tried that tack recently,
I quote:

“but doesn’t translate testimony he links on his (emphasis mine) website for Meredith”

and I try to avoid her unless she addresses me directly, especially as everyone knows Ed McCall started the Meredith Kercher Wiki, and I am just one of the contributors there. But anyhow, the record shows the pro-Amanda crowd, never let facts get in their way when they lose the argument, they attack the person.

And, one more time, I am not Meredith’s uncle (though I’d have been proud to be) or related to or know the Kerchers in any way. Nor am I ‘harryrag’ though I do admire his badgering ways, and I say that as a compliment smile

It is a bit rich that Bruce Fischer, who only posted defense documents (many only recently and not even on Amanda Knox’s site) and never bothered to translate the prosecution side, now makes false claims about Professor Vinci. Just because Professor Vinci made a presentation at AFS in Seattle in February, presenting the same old disproven arguments we discussed and refuted several times over at PMF (and TJMK) she (Amanda Knox) wants to pretend it as proven, when, they were not.

I even linked to her stuff, DFFS, and the Wiki posted it as soon as ol’ Bruce comes up with it. (Note: the reasons the so called ‘sperm stain’ wasn’t tested was already explained several times by Stefanoni, but they’re just carrying on with smoke screens, as per usual)

Oh, well, never mind. They really are novices at this internet thing, they copy us relentlessly since they never have an original thought in their heads, and the only reason she needs translators right now is she wants to beat us before PMF comes up with the definitive translation of the Nencini Report. Do what you did last year with the Cassazione Report, Bruce. Get Google translate to help you smile

Posted by Ergon on 03/21/14 at 10:27 PM | #

Hi Ergon
Hep! That’s them. I have tried in my own way to do the same although it does give me a boost to have them react with their vitriolic replies since it only underscores how desperate they are. The other day someone called justme took me to task for writing an opinion with the response that was so out to lunch and so full of suppositions as to be laughable. This of course is the usual stock in trade of these paid for shills. They trot out the old old arguments concerning Mignini and satanic orgies gone wrong etc. Anyway I leave them to their dream world.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 03/22/14 at 11:24 AM | #

There was a question elsewhere asking about Curt Knox hiring a PR firm to sanitize Knox’s image. My reply was it was done for money and package Knox as a media property, but I differentiate between MSM and the online campaign. My answer:

Yes. Starting with UK media asking all and sundry for interviews. My point is not dissimilar to yours. Yes, there was a PR strategy to sanitize Knox but that is not unique to her alone. The prize for an absolute media frenzy is the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, which happened earlier that same year. The McCanns used similar tactics the Knoxes did, including the hiring of a prominent PR guru to defend them against any charges of neglect and/or murder and arrange interviews to gloss over their image.

The Meredith Kercher case is unique in the extent of the internet investigation and reporting. Not that we never had websleuths before, but to THIS extent?

Now the template’s been set, we can expect future high profile murder cases to follow the same arc, for better and for worse. Why do you think opportunists like Frank Sfarzo, Steve Moore, and Bruce Fischer jumped on this band wagon?

Posted by Ergon on 03/22/14 at 06:25 PM | #

Once Moore with feeling
I like to remind people who defend Knox at all costs that she has always refused to take a polygraph test. I point out that there are people who are uncertain whether she is innocent or not.
(Honest they do exist) and that those who sit on the fence would come down on the side of innocence if she did take one and passed of course.
And then predictably the same tired response I always get is

“Yes! But it’s not exceptable in a court of law”

Which of course is not my question but they duck it and it is never answered since they can’t.

I point this out to show just how desperate these people are. So there it is. They run and hide while screaming innocent without any basis at all for their paranoia/xenophobia.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 03/22/14 at 07:54 PM | #

@Grahame Rhodes

I have developed some resistance but but it is not perfect. My most irrelevant question was how do they know in advance that the whole world is conspiring against the Amanda darling!

I have been abused a lot but that just shows their desperation. I only wonder how people can be so dumb- have they never been taught to ask questions?

They too think that right and wrong must be decided by a vote.

Posted by chami on 03/23/14 at 01:21 PM | #

We could blame it all on PR and the effectiveness of crowd psychology, chami. Maybe PR reinforces preconceptions or promulgated belief, who knows. That the seminal 1928 book, Propagnda I keep referring to, will give us answers.

Fascism plays well to this sort of mob control, and all we have now in what we call civilization is conflict between various forms of fascism, I dunno.

The Know PR campaign was not the first.

The slander and misinformation campaign against Mignini began before Meredith was murdered, with Doug Preston and The Monster of Florence case. Without Doug Preston, the whole PR campaign against Mignini would not have gained traction on this side of the ocean, with stories of a ‘Sex and Satanism obsessed prosecutor’ being lent weight by the Berlusconi factions. The Knox PR had a lot of assistance from the Italian side, including that of the well connected Sollecitos.

Yes, Knox PR went to great lengths, now thankfully failed, but American PR would not have gone far if they didn’t have Italian ‘sources’ they said backed up their version of events.

Posted by Ergon on 03/23/14 at 02:37 PM | #

This is the end game for Knox and her lapdog.. They will soon be languishing in an italian prison for the best part of a quarter of a century. This makes me feel a whole lot better about my children visiting the wonderful county that is Italy.

The folk who defend them are stone cold, devious, cunning, sly, hate filled people, simple minded idiots who refuse to see the truth. That truth is shining down on us all and bathing us in its glory.

Meredith will receive justice. Her lovely family will have some degree of peace. That is is because of people like us who refuse to lay down and go away. People like us who will fight for true justice.

I am a middle aged man with grown up children of my own. I am a simple man with simple tastes. I want to live my life honestly and with integrity. i was taught the difference between right and wrong. I appreciate the value of love and respect. i find it revolting that murderers are allowed to roam free, flaunting the law. mocking us by wearing silly cat burglar costumes, writing books, becoming infamous. They make me sick to my stomach.

I know the day will come when a big steel door will slam shut on them both. there will be silence in that room then, save a few moans from other tortured souls….

Maybe only then will it dawn on them both just what they have done…..

Those big steel doors cannot shut quickly enough for me…

Posted by mollythecat on 03/25/14 at 05:50 AM | #

mollythecat

Of course you are right. In the last seven years I have tried in my own way to point out the discrepancies in the FOA notebook of lies and
misdirection techniques. They are only capable of zeroing in on one aspect of the evidence while discounting all of it and that goes for all their so called experts. In that time I have been called every name under the sun which amuses me. Also I have been threatened. But of course they are empty threats since they would never dare to come to my neck of the woods anyway. Unfortunately for Amanda Knox and company, plus Raphael Sollecito of course, we are not going away and we will not shut up. We are in it for the long haul even if it takes twenty, thirty years plus.

For example I am proud to be called a ‘Guilter’ because that is what I am. The people who call this site a “hate site” are indeed correct in that we hate injustice, lies and a public relations firm who use this to better their financial bottom line. We hate media companies who use this murder to advance their own ratings, but most of all we hate murderers, such as Knox and Sollecito, who profit financially from their crime.

No! We will not stop but continue until true justice is served and Knox and Sollecito are in the jail cell they so richly deserve. The reason is simple. If this is a hate site it is because we value intelligence and the desire to better ones self above everything else. When Knox murdered Meredith she not only killed a beautiful girl but killed a great talent, a great intellect and a great intelligence.

As far as I am concerned Knox and her clan of supporters are dirt, it’s that simple. I consider them to be the lowest common denominator in the field of human excrement. And finally.

No! we will not stop and we will keep on going and keep on digging for as long as it takes because if not then it will set a precedent for all future cases where public perceptions are allowed to sway people who are too lazy to find out the truth for themselves.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 03/25/14 at 04:03 PM | #


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