Mignini’s And Giuttari’s Florence Convictions Are Annulled: No Evidence, And No Jurisdiction

Posted by Peter Quennell





The ANSA news service is reporting that Giuliano Mignini’s and Michele Giuttari’s 2010 convictions have been annulled.

The Florence appeal court ruled scathingly that no evidence exists and also that the Florence trial court did not have jurisdiction. The case might be looked at again by the prosecutors in Turin or Genoa, which Mignini and Giuttari favor to get the spurious case against them more than just annulled. They’d like its root causes brought out. .

Mignini had caught the exact-same Florence prosecutor on tape, with a judge’s consent, bewailing the fact that the Monster of Florence cabal was tying his hands. That trial was simple a panicky attempt to get himself out from under which will hurt his career and the trail judge’s too.

It wasn’t Mignini who invented the Florence cabal (or satanic sect) notion, and he is suspicious of people (like Preston and Spetzi) who work so hard to deny it.  Many of the Italian Monster of Florence books also argue 180 degrees away from Preston. Hmmm. What hold does the Monster of Florence sect have over Preston? Is he a secret satanist?! The world really wants to know…

Mignin’s quoted remarks outside the appeal court make it sound like he would like to resume the investigation of why Dr Narducci died suspiciously in Lake Trasimeno. That had to be halted because the Florence prosecutor seized all the papers on the case.

We have posted several times as much on Mignini as most of the UK and US media combined, and we translated a long email from him, and two long and very revealing interviews.

Kermit’s contrast of Preston’s satanic obsessions with Mignini’s really very mundane interests are an absolute must-view.




Comments

Stilicho’ comment on PMF really captured the essence of D. Preston:

“Read his books or even one of his books.  He’s really a “secret SuperGenius” of the Wile. E. Coyote sort.  That’s the impression I get from reading up on his characters and plot-lines.

Of all the people associated with the Kercher murder case, Preston is the one I believe is most likely in need of analysis and possibly heavy medication.”

Not a good day for D. Preston. Our Kermit must be very amused.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 11/22/11 at 03:31 PM | #

@ James Raper

The Court of Appeal of Florence, Florence stated the lack of territorial jurisdiction with regard to the proceedings against the prosecutor Giuliano Mignini in Perugia and the writer-policeman Michele Giuttari. The Court of Appeal then reversed the sentence at first instance in which in January, 2010 Mignini and Giuttari were convicted to one year and four months, Mignini, and six months, Giuttari, for abuse of their office “in complicity amongst themselves” . This event is related to Perugian investigations related to the monster of Florence.

The Court of Appeals then ordered the transmission of all the documents to the Prosecutor of Turin, [i.e. the trial is now transferred to Turin] due to the presence of a magistrate of Genoa among the plaintiff in the trial of Florence. Mignini was the lead prosecutor in Perugia, who investigated about the doctor Francesco Narducci’s death, which Umbrian Attorney believed related to the events of the Monster of Florence. Giuttari was the policeman who was in charge of the investigation.

The abuse of office for which they were convicted was about investigation carried out on a number of investigative journalists and law enforcement officials, aimed to influence them, because they kept critical attitudes toward the Mignini’s investigation into Narducci’s death, according to the Florence Prosecution.

Mignini was the lead prosecutor in Perugia during investigation about the murder of Meredith Kercher: the of British student’s vicissitude has nothing to do with the proceedings at issue today in the Court of Appeal in Florence. Giuttari, who retired from the police, now performs the activity of the lawyer-detective and is a mystery writer.

Mignini, decision was expected -’‘From the beginning they could not hear this case in Florence. This removal should had been at the beginning.’’ prosecutor Giuliano Mignini said commenting on the appellate ruling that overturned the first instance conviction and ordered the transfer of the case from Florence to Turin.

Mignini, answering to reporters, then confirmed that the crime (abuse of office) might fall into a prescription. The same for the charged policeman-writer Michele Giuttari. Even for him there was the annulment of the conviction of first degree and the statement of lack of territorial jurisdiction.

‘‘As investigator I have a bitterness - said Giuttari - This activity carried out by Florence Court blocked the Perugian investigation about the doctor Francesco Narducci’ death, who was believed connected to the Monster of Florence. Acts of that investigation were seized, effectively blocking it.’’

Posted by ncountryside on 11/22/11 at 03:36 PM | #

Very much appreciated ncountryside. If you are still around it would be good to get your take on Michele Giuttari. Is he as popular as ever?

Posted by Peter Quennell on 11/22/11 at 03:57 PM | #

Yes, his book “Il mostro. Anatomia di un indagine” about the monster of Florence is highly recommended but unfortunately seems translated only in German.

His official site:  http://www.michelegiuttari.com

Posted by ncountryside on 11/22/11 at 05:20 PM | #

The Ken Jautz posts by Skeptical Bystander and James Raper and Mignini’s very long interview with CNN (which CNN cherrypicked in an attempt to shaft him) had not been linked to in the Mignini collection.

They are now, and here again is the link to the entire group of Mignini posts: http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C442/

Posted by Peter Quennell on 11/22/11 at 05:57 PM | #

11/22/11

Thank You, Jesus! Mignini is free at last from specious accusations. I had two computer repairmen working on my PC today. The first site I saw when they left was this good news. I’m so relieved that Mignini and Giuttari’s convictions were reversed. Oh happy day.

Mignini has been a skillful fighter for Meredith’s justice.  It’s raining here and I wish Mignini and Giuttari could join me for a Gene Kelly “Singin in the Rain” dance of victory celebration.

Posted by Hopeful on 11/22/11 at 06:52 PM | #

Pete, thanks for being the bringer of good news today. I am in a celebration mood. Those who have made a living off of sliming Prosecutor Mignini are going to have to regroup and think of how they will rewrite their script to explain this one.

While they are at it, they could apologise to the Kercher family for the additional grief they have caused Meredith’s parents and brothers and sister, in the unnatural PR campaign the slimers have participated in.

Long live San Martín (“a todo cerdo le llega su San Martín” - every pig gets to celebrate the San Martín feast)!

Posted by Kermit on 11/22/11 at 08:10 PM | #

Congratulations to PM MIgnini, and while technically he is not home free, his case now being transferred to be tried again in the Turin court, it is quite possible he will win there.

I agree, it is time to look at the MOF case again. I suggested a while ago that Preston’s movie might never get made, and this appears increasingly likely. The defenders of Knox and Sollecito who attacked Mignini are looking increasingly foolish.

It also is a fact that satanic cults and pedophilic groups are rife in European society, and their enablers in government and the judiciary need to finally, have the light shine upon them.

Posted by Ergon on 11/23/11 at 08:21 AM | #

I applaud Mignini for his dogged stance and his courageous defence of Meredith.

I wouldn’t expect the average person to appreciate the subtleties of this case. Many people unfortunately accept the misinformation that the media feeds them without bothering to question it themselves. Thankfully sites like this exist to educate the public on the facts and reinforce the importance of seeking truth and justice.

Don’t be too concerned about a certain citizen of Seattle winning her freedom. She already resides in a prison of her own making, possessing that fatal wound that hath magically healed.

Posted by Aquarian_Love on 11/23/11 at 08:24 AM | #

You may remember Bill Williams ....the one with the obscure technician friend. He posted several postings on this site on this page.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/italian_lawyers_strategically_timed_strike_this_week_causes_postponeme/#comments

As you will read he was treated in a civil manner. His arguments were debated in a contested cordial fashion.

When I tried to debate issues on the Injustice in Perugia website, I was met with hostility and abuse. I quote from his 350th post of the 22/11/2011

‘At the risk of being paternalistic, I imagine that most posters to the two PMF sites are in their middle teens and are a subsection of that group who are particularly naive, chatty on the internet, and unable to sort through evidence. They are the ones who “just know that AK is guilty because her birthday is the same as OJ’s”.’

I have no wish engage in slanging match, however I do feel inclined to ask this ignorant, supercilious person for an apology.

Lets see what type of people inhabit and post on pro-Amanda sites!

Posted by starsdad on 11/23/11 at 08:57 AM | #

@starsdad, I’m the person who started the whole same birthday as OJ (and same acquittal day) meme on these threads so am quite qualified to say Bill Williams is telling a lie, either knowingly or not, and that his behaviour is modeled on that of the Amandii.

I never said the astrology ‘proved’ Knox and Sollecito were guilty or that I based my opinion on it(You’ll find my two articles in the ‘On psychology’ heading in the right hand column) but I say I formed my opinion on the lies told by Knox, and the astrology was just a tool of observational psychology.

Bill Williams has been running back to their forum saying he was banned from here just because he was on the innnocentsi side. I don’t know if he was or not, but if he was, it was because he was disruptive and running back to another forum and lying about people’s comments. Typical about their m.o. since day 1.

Posted by Ergon on 11/23/11 at 10:41 AM | #

@Ergon
It is a frivolous obscure statement taken out of context…like his frivolous and obscure technician friend.

As ‘sorting through evidence’ let me try to encapsulate the whole case in a matter of sentences.

Knox and Sollecito lied and lied, before and after the body was discovered!!!

Whether they are guilty or innocent, they lied!!!

Posted by starsdad on 11/23/11 at 11:23 AM | #

The injustice in Perugia site is full of frivolous staements. I quote this one for the sake of it. It is by welshman on his 85th post 22/11/2001.

‘The guilters have been discussed a lot on this forum. I think it is time to examine who the guilters are, what is their agenda and who are behind the websites TJMK and PMF. I strongly suspect the guilters are working for the prosecution for the following reasons’.......

Now I am not ‘imagining that most posters to the proAmanda sites are in their middle teens and are a subsection of that group who are particularly naive, chatty on the internet, and unable to sort through evidence,’ but it is frivolous…and it’s frivolous of me to draw peoples attention to it.

I await Bill Williams appology.

Posted by starsdad on 11/23/11 at 12:08 PM | #

Starsdad you have a point which I always come back to:  THEY LIED.  In fact, AManda was convicted of it.  Yet the FOAs will tell you NONE of that is her fault.  But they tried and convicted Mignini long before the trial was even over. 

Mignini is a cad, Amanda is just an innocent girl.  SURE. And now you know why I have so little respect for the FOAs, they defend a liar whilst calling everyone else one.

One thing is for sure, I don’t speak Italian or work for the prosecution and yet I’ve been extremely outspoken about THEIR GUILTY.

Posted by JenE on 11/23/11 at 12:51 PM | #

“It wasn’t Mignini who invented the Florence cabal (or satanic sect) notion and he is suspicious of people (like Preston and Spetzi) who work so hard to deny it”

I am also suspicious of the fact that many FOA are from the James Randi/Michael Shermer cult groups that make a career of denying the presence of people that are into satanism or pedophilia (Their promotion of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation is interesting in itself)

This is not to say that every one in JREF is a pedophile or satanist, obviously. They attract bright intelligent students and rational thinkers, who sadly, are just as easily seduced by flawed theoretical structures as any conspiracy theorist.

But I for one am glad that the spotlight is now back on those who try to deny the presence of such groups of people. Europe is rife with them, and too many killings and child molestation rings have gone on unexamined.

That PM Mignini was attacked precisely because he was investigating this and is now exonerated is important to know. He is a decent man and what happened to him was a shame.

Posted by Ergon on 11/23/11 at 01:50 PM | #

Ergon, having looked deeply into the False Memory Syndrome Foundation I can tell you it’s a rabbit hole that leads to CIA connections, and there are more than a few people out there who have done a fabulous job exposing and asking the right questions about these folks (whose own daughter, a professor, has accused them of abusing her extensively). 

Anyway, I have heard the vibe on the JREF boards referred to as “orphaned rationalism”. I laughed so hard recently when cold fusion came to be confirmed as real.  How many times has Randi said “cold fusion is a dead duck”? 

I’m not surprised to hear many of the FOA are part of the “Skeptard” community.  The FOA rationalize and argue in much the same way, and it’s a way of thinking and being that is by definition NOT SANE.  They aren’t logical, and they are utterly guilty of confirmation bias.

Posted by JenE on 11/23/11 at 02:03 PM | #

Dear Peter, I am very happy for the news regarding Mignini.ccI do really hope he will win in the Turin court.  I don’t remember any magistrate being so insulted like Mignini.They have insulted Mignini more than Amanda and Raffaele combined.Two professional cheaters.What a shame.

Regarding the so called “Monster of Florence”,  Ergon is right.  It wasn’t Mignini who thought that behind them there was a satanic sect.  Many others prosecutors even before him had this opinion.

CBS and Preston says it is a ridiculous theory. No, they are ridiculous.  Eveyrbody knows in Italy that it was a satanic sect. Satanic sects do exist.  It is not a joke. We have a nun killed, near Rome, by two girls who belonged to a satanic sect.They admitted it.

Mignini is not crazy at all. And Giuttari was a great cop, one of the best.

Posted by Matteo_65 on 11/23/11 at 03:15 PM | #

I , too, am glad that Mignini`s conviction has been overturned after all and the FOA have no further reason to gloat.

Posted by aethelred23 on 11/23/11 at 03:23 PM | #

I’m pleased that Mignini’s conviction has been overturned. It defies belief that he was convicted in the first place. He was found guilty of illegal wiretapping despite the fact that the phone taps were authorised and checked by the investigating judge.

Posted by The Machine on 11/23/11 at 04:59 PM | #

11/24/11
Tomorrow is Thanksgiving, we have good news about Mignini to be grateful for.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

Posted by Hopeful on 11/23/11 at 06:08 PM | #

Hi Ergon. “Bill Williams has been running back to their forum saying he was banned from here just because he was on the innnocentsi side.”

Really? Bill Williams was banned?! News to me. He made one weak and woolly comment and was then firmly shot down. Like others he seems to have run squealing back home. 

The only one that we did feel best to ban in a long time was Rimjob/Hugo, and that was because he was hijacking threads to propagate the worst of the dimwitted Bruce Fischer nonsense without restraint.

He was also slobbering over an insane theory that Guede was a necrophiliac, and that necrophilia drove the crime against Meredith. Gimme a break. Nice people AK attracts. Out of the graveyards, it seems.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 11/23/11 at 09:15 PM | #

Hi Peter,

Bill Williams couldn’t log on one day and that was enough to make him assume the worst.

The funnier posts are from new people that join then want to argue the same FOA points we have been hearing from day 1. But then, I think they’re running on fumes..

Posted by Ergon on 11/23/11 at 10:22 PM | #

Bill Williams has appologised on the Injustice in Perugia site, which is appreciated very much.
In my opinion it is all too easy to get caught up and run with the crowd.
However, I do think he has been selective by not quoting my original post on the subject.

Posted by starsdad on 11/24/11 at 06:29 AM | #

Ha, ha, ha

I did not read Bill williams other later posts before posting the above post. What an absolute daydreamer you are Bill Williams. I quote your previous post before you left. ‘Thanks all for the civil discussion here.  One last kick at the cat, and I will be off…..’ You were not banned and you made another post after this one. And you talk about other people being unable to sort evidence!
If you are sincere about your appologies quote my original post on this matter and a link to this page.

Posted by starsdad on 11/24/11 at 06:52 AM | #

I’d like to address the ‘Satanism’ issue which caused PM Mignini to be so unfairly vilified. Matteo_65 is correct to point out that it is enough for people to have been influenced by Satanism for it to be considered as part of a person’s pathology and motive for a crime.

And while a different culture like the US and UK might find it easier to dismiss such analysis, I ask how they would consider Charles Manson? Leader of a satanic group, psychotic, or both?

Because I have a lot more to write on this subject.

Posted by Ergon on 11/24/11 at 10:35 AM | #

Hi Ergon,

There have been ritual or satanic killings in England, Greece, Germany, Italy and Russia in recent years.

Posted by The Machine on 11/24/11 at 01:51 PM | #

Bill Williams came here for a reason, and it’s because something in him is still searching for answers.  He probably thought he would come here and cause dissent or something, and his ego was bruised when he was easily debunked.  The fact that he brought up his conversation with his “homocide technition” friend who says WE are “over thinking this” is very telling, and I believe that was one of his last posts.  I highly suspect that no such “friend” exists and if he does, he hasn’t read the case at all.

quote from Bill W. after mentioning his “friend”:

“I mean, I am not qualified at all to asses (really) the postings here, or even assess what the guy here is telling me.  It is a matter of who I am going to believe.”


Yes, and BELIEF is what it’s all about for people like Bill Williams. 

PR campaigns are fueled by belief afterall, and people who think a murder case is about belief will hopefully never have a career in law enforcement!!!!!

And btw, I’ve seen comments on youtube and in various news stories where FOAs accuse this site and Peter of all kinds of crimes (and talking about how AManda is going to sue this site….oh I found that one RICH!). 

This site is a problem for them, it’s got too many facts neatly laid out, and as we all know the evidence against AK and RS is here to stay.  WE KNOW THEY LIED and most of us know they are guilty of more than that. 

I think a lot of FOAs are confused right now and a bit disenchanted, it’s only a matter of time before the more curious ones end up here.  The PR campaign has laxed and faultered, the loose ends are unraveling.

Posted by JenE on 11/24/11 at 02:01 PM | #

I agree, The Machine. Any ritualistic killing or that committed by people having satanic fantasies or obsessions can be classified as a ‘satanic killing’.

But to be fair, PM MIgnini did not classify or even investigate this case as connected with satanism. He thought it might have started as a sexual hazing connected with Haloween. Which, given AK’s writing, might not be so far off the mark.

Posted by Ergon on 11/24/11 at 02:03 PM | #

@ergon, I don’t think Satanism has anything to do with the motives and murder of Meredith. However, I don’t think it’s crazy to be open to that factor for any murder case these days, and as someone who is not an expert but very educated on the matter, I can honestly say a lot of cases go by without that issue being factored in when clearly satanic motivations were involved.

Amanda and Raf and Rudy however do not fit that profile and I think the PR campaign had a lot to do with the misleading reports on Mignini around this issue.  Mignini isn’t stupid, and he likely knows Amanda is a sociopath but not a satanist. 

Part of the reason for the lack of law enforcement attention to this subject is back in (I beleive) the 1990’s the FBI did a huge coverup about the whole issue of Satanic ritual abuse and made it out to be MYTH.  Not sure how real investigators could possibly come to such an erroneous conclusion with the evidence and testimony I have personally been exposed to.  There are whole towns with these networks operating in them, it’s a terrible fact.  There are more than a few practicing satanists (the violent kind) in positions of power and govt.

Posted by JenE on 11/24/11 at 02:12 PM | #

One more tidbit for the Bill Williams’ out there:

Until a few days ago, thanks to the massive efforts of the LIE fueled PR campaign, I thought Rudy Guede’s sperm was found at the crime scene.  I have since been told it was not.  Yet literally every web conversations I got into during the first month or so of my investigation into this case all I heard from the FOA camp was that his sperm was found and that’s the PROOF. 

When they can’t even get basic facts like that right, I really don’t see how the farce can go on forever.

Posted by JenE on 11/24/11 at 02:16 PM | #

[This comment was also posted on the thread under the Melania Rea post #2 just above, and JenE has already responded to it there.]

Hi Ergon and JenE. There seems to be a fight going on in Italy now between those who suspect satanic cults are on the spread and those who want this kind of suspicion suppressed. The Mignini case might have been one manifestation.

I have been coming across repeated assertions of this (which is new territory for me) in reading up on and discussing with a source in Italy the case of Melania Rea which is the subject of the post just above.

In June a Rome prosecutor called Paolo Ferraro who was apparently zeroing in on satanic activity in the military (including at the Clementi barracks in Ascoli where Melania’s husband was based) was put on forced medical leave for four months, despite the fact that people around him claimed he was quite sane.

Someone who looked extremely like Melania Rea was seen in the prosecutor’s office in Rome shortly before Melania was killed on 18 April.

Early this month Paul Ferraro was interviewed by the Melania case prosecutors in Teramo for three hours, when he explained what he suspected was going on at the Clementi barracks which Melania might have found out about.

(The other main theory of motive is that Melania’s husband Salvatore had got himself entangled with a possessive female soldier (main candidate for this is Ludovica Perrone) and Melania was trying to shut the affair down. She was known to be distraught just before she died.)

There is nothing on Paolo Ferraro in the English-language media. Would anyone with some Italian like to pursue this? If you google the names Paolo Ferraro and Melania Rea you will get back over three MILLION results.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&ndsp=21&q=Paolo%20Ferraro%20melania%20rea&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw

We sure could use one or two posts on this. Perhaps Ergon and some of our Italian friends who read? We have willing translators elsewhere.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 11/24/11 at 09:40 PM | #

@JenE, I don’t wish to belabor the point but I think the question of satanism flounders on the language itself. I find the ‘humanistic’ thinkers of today react to the religious connotations.

They also seem to devote a great deal of time denying one aspect of ritualistic killing, which is child sexual abuse. They have no problem condemning the whole Catholic Church for covering up child molestation, yet always insist there is no proof of organized groups of pedophiles in the secular word that prey on children.

A generalization perhaps, but it does seem that while the Doutroux case in Belgium has been brought to light despite the obvious attempts at coverup, there are no such successful cases in the US. Odd, very odd.

Of course, Knox/Sollecito have no connection with this. But PM Mignini was slimed, and that was made easy by previous PR efforts in the US to sweep ALL allegations of ritual killing and sexual abuse under the rug. It always was a lone sociopath that did it, and never a group.

Therefore, I for one wish Mignini and Giuttari all luck and hope one day they will solve the MOF murder. Funny that so many still shy away from the possibility of ‘satanism’ in this case…

Posted by Ergon on 11/24/11 at 10:10 PM | #

@Ergon, I think this is an important issue and for me a somewhat personal one.  I’ve been closely associated with survivors whose stories are beyond belief, yet they happened. 

I agree, the term “satanic” is so loaded, especially for the religious.  And then there are the self proclaimed “Satanists” who are not violent or even negative people, I’ve met a few, they seem more to me to just be rebelling against their Christian upbrining in most cases.  So I almost wish there was another word that fit the semantics better, but the truth is there are so many groups who are “Satanic” in both their symbolism and methodology and so for clarity it’s what I use to describe these networks.  Unfortunately, many of these networks not only consider themselves satanic, but they are also Masonic and give the law abiding Masons a very bad rap.

So ultimately it’s a known fact these abuse networks have infiltrated not only law enforcement, but courts and CPS all over the place. 

I’m totally familiar with the Doutroux affair as well as the Franklin coverup and they are both chilling, the latter being in the USA and the coverup was quite vast and successful.  These types of networks are rampant in the US, and my investigations into one of them in Oregon got me a death threat in 2003, seriously.  Dirty cops were involved, I couldn’t even make this stuff up.

I think the Knox PR people knew that much of the American public thinks accusations of satanism are conspiracy, and would be turned off at the idea that Mignini was coming at it from that angle (even though he was not!).  He was slimed as you say, and yes, typical Americans have a much easier time believing it was the lone drifter Guede. 

People also have a hard time believing a female can be a sociopath, especially when she is good looking.

Posted by JenE on 11/24/11 at 10:42 PM | #

Hello Peter,as you know I am Italian.

If I understand correctly; you want to know from the people who live in Italy what they think of Mignini and Perugia and Firenze case.

Despite the insults to Mignini from the American media; the Italian media have NOT insulted him (except Mario Spezi) in any way, up to the acquittal in the appeal trial.

Regarding the Perugia case, more then 2/3 of Italians think that Amanda and Raffaele were involved, with Guede.(this is the result of the last poll). Despite the acquittal most Italians didn’t change their mind.They are agreed with Mignini.

Regarding the Firenze case, most of the italians are agreed with Mignini again; that behind the so called “Monster of Florence” there is a Satanic sect. I am one of them.We are millions and millions to agree with Mignini.

I don’t know Peter, if you are catholic; but even the Vatican declared Tuscany:“the regions of the Satanic sects in Europe”;and Firenze (Florence) is in Tuscany.

Posted by Matteo_65 on 11/28/11 at 01:21 PM | #

Peter,we have to think of something to keep alive the memory of Meredith,and the desire for justice.Here nobody talk about it anymore.

I fear there will be American pressures on the judges of the Supreme Court (Cassazione).  America wants to put and end to this case. I am sure that the State Department was behind the acquittal in the appeal trial. Remenber dective Ciolino saying:“Don’t worry the State Department will get involved”? These words say everything. It wasn’t a trial but a farce.

I was thinking to this.We should “bomb” the web site of TV programmes in Italy, asking to talk of the Perugia case.Here TV only talk about Scazzi case, Melania case,Yara case, and what about Meredith case? Let’s write to programms like “Porta a Porta”,“Quarto Grado”, “Chi la Visto”

What do you think?

Posted by Matteo_65 on 11/29/11 at 10:49 AM | #

Hi Matteo.

Thanks for the first comment providing feedback on Mignini and the MOF. No surprises there!

On the second comment, the media will seem to move on, but will be back very fast whenever anything new blows.  The next things to blow will be the Hellman report now a month away and the Mignini grounds for appeal now 10 weeks away.

That things have gone quiet in the US seems to us maybe for the best as the media incessantly got the facts wrong.  Insofar as State wanted an outcome it was not so much to spring Knox (they followed the trial closely and knew of the mountain of evidence).

It was more to take some of the political and judicial heat off of Berlusconi so he could get the long-awaited economic package through. That factor won’t apply next year. Our Cassation-watchers all think the appeal outcome will be reversed.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 11/29/11 at 01:37 PM | #

Peter,I didn’t understand this sentence:“Insofar as State wanted an outcome it was not so much to spring Knox”.
Can you explain me with different words.I have lived in the USA,but I forgot a lot of English.
Thanks Peter.

Posted by Matteo_65 on 11/29/11 at 02:59 PM | #

re: “Our Cassation-watchers all think the appeal outcome will be reversed.”

What will happen is it is reversed?  What is the next step?  I imagine that there are not unlimited funds to keep fighting this case against well-paid defense lawyers.

Posted by believing on 11/29/11 at 08:48 PM | #

@Matteo

I think Peter’s right in saying that “the media will seem to move on, but will be back very fast” for anything new.”  And from another perspective, Amanda Knox’s current situation represents a certain difficulty for this site.

Ever since the Hellman verdict Amanda’s public status is that of a free woman who has been found to be innocent in a court of law.  One has to walk rather carefully around that fact—a public fact, as I am calling it.

That she is guilty, as originally found, I may (& do) believe, but this counts as a fact only in reflecting a man’s opinion.  It’s not in any wise a public fact.

What remains public (& this is worth saying—it’s why I am posting this) is Amanda’s visible role as, according to the news, a young woman trying to get back to normal life after her prison ordeal.

Curious to say that we find this news, for instance, in The Mail (a UK tabloid) rather than in the SeattlePI or The Seattle Times.  Noteworthy also: the news is amply illustrated.  Even the details are sometimes telling.

For example, the detail of her new boyfriend’s hat.  She is at least twice shown wearing it & once shown walking with new boyfriend as he is wearing it.  Intimacy of Young Love or some such phony message.

In fact, is this sort of thing even news?  I don’t believe it: it’s manufactured propaganda originating in the continuing Knox PR campaign (to state, once more, what is only my belief.)

And here’s the most interesting aspect of this paid-for paparazzi fable.  On the one hand it’s “Leave the poor girl alone!  Give her a chance to get back to ordinary living.”  And yet on my view it is precisely the Knox PR campaign that slips its British tabloid such news & photos under the table.

Amanda’s very appearance in the “news”—indeed, her Every Appearance in the news—keeps alive her continuing role as victim.  From my point of view, the predator now poses as the victim!  And it suits the on-going PR.

I could be wrong about this, of course. I haven’t Peter’s cosmopolitan resources & little of the expertise much demonstrated by contributors.  But if my view is right, the Knox PR campaign is playing a double game.  The contrivance is artificial, in that case.  And if so, it can’t be entirely secure.

Posted by Ernest Werner on 12/02/11 at 05:07 PM | #

Hi, bjorn, yes, it is entirely possible that Ms Knox has inked a deal with the same agent that also got one for war criminals Bush and Blair, just saying smile

The key to such deals is the advance money, the massaging and tweaking that a good team of ghostwriters and editors can do (and such is the nature of celebrity authorship today :(

But, it also is the nature of the business that such an agreement does not automatically lead to a book deal. 

This would require the Supreme Court of Italy to find Knox and Sollecito innocent, otherwise the book will have no value. Therefore, until I read about a five figure advance, I think this is just a rumour planted in the media to keep her in the public eye and influence media coverage.

It’s also strange she hasn’t given any interviews since her release. Very counterproductive, from a PR standpoint.

It might be in Ms. Knox’s best interests to fade into obscurity, like Karla Homolka and Casey Anthony.

Posted by Ergon on 12/05/11 at 05:38 PM | #

Here’s more on superagent Robert Barnett. http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/35d28f90-9f13-11dd-98bd-000077b07658.html#axzz1fhAFzMcd

CNN blogs is also running with the rumour. So, assuming it’s more than a PR plant, we can expect a Knox family Xmas on ABC, as I suggested a while ago?

Posted by Ergon on 12/05/11 at 06:15 PM | #

Hi bjorn

Forgive a tardy reply. Your points are valid & I agree with what you say. As for book sales, I heard this morning much the same opinion as yours from the old gal I walk my dog with, a woman of high intelligence & very well read.

As for the DC attorney to whom the Knox team has turned, Robert Barnett (“a managing partner at Williams & Connolly, the capital’s best-connected… law firm,”) he “commands fees at the top end of the scale: reports range from $750 to $1,000 an hour. “He charges a lot by the hour,” says [Bob] Woodward, a client.

So the Knox team has blown its cover just one day after news of Sollecito’s signing with an agent in Seattle (a sister city of Perugia’s, I believe.)

But poor Amanda is in a double-bind.  She isn’t living her own life at all—she’s on assignment for the PR campaign. And she won’t write her own book (if this comes about.)

Whether her psyche is split to the point of being latently schizophrenic, I don’t know, but I do know that she’s caught now in a schizoid predicament.  The role she must live does not correspond to the woman herself.  (One could expand on this greatly.)

At this point, seriously, I wouldn’t be too surprised if the guy she’s shacked up with is on assignment with her.

Posted by Ernest Werner on 12/07/11 at 09:40 PM | #

Bjorn,

It is neither essential or necessary that they must tell the same thing: one fellow can say that cow has four legs and the other can say the horse has two ears.  They both have danced around the truth (Amanda’s dance was more entertaining) quite professionally (my opinion).  Proper journalist should follow more tricky questions: how much money was spent for the expert testimony and exactly what role the Dept of State played in this game. 

Even the “whole truth” looks different from different perspective. If you live inside a cocoon, it is your own universe. If you are outside, it is simply a small blob.  Both can be right and both can be wrong at the same time. Neither can tell much more than what we already know (apart from petty details like what kind of sex Amanda likes or Raffaele shaved her with his knife in which many may be interested) because they must accommodate all the known facts so far.  For a book to be successful, it must accommodate the common public perception.  So much is already out and yet so much is still missing.  They will not try to fill in that direction: they will simply stick to their own stories in their own worlds.  I do not think their worlds ever intersected: they came closer for excitement and then they went away their own ways. 

For both what happened on the fateful night is an aberration and certainly not worth reporting.  Both will have good minders not to talk about that.

Posted by chami on 12/08/11 at 03:02 PM | #

So what was the Knox-PR cover?
That Amanda wanted only to return to normal living & wished to be let alone.

Were there gaps in this cover?
Yes, in the quality of news photos, whether contrived or posed.

Why was this cover broken? And when?
It was discarded in reponse to news of Sollecito’s book deal.

What was then revealed?
Unremitting Knox-PR drive (the whole time) aiming for big deals: book & TV.

What’s the proof of that?
Disclosure of top-flight Washington DC book-deal attorney. He would not allow himself to be known in association with questionable dealings.

So do you mean the deal’s essentially done?
Seems to be. The book deal is as good as done. See remarks by Ergon on possible Christmas TV special.

Will this strategy work?
For a time. Expect big deals & a heap of money until the faults begin to show.

What faults?
To mention only one of several: it seems a moral impossibility to overlook the psychopathic nature of this notorious crime.  It is precisely (a) the evidence of Amanda’s guilt (b) & the sheer inhumanity of this rape-torture-murder on which a judgment of psychopathy is based.
Even under political pressure it will be hard to let that slide by.

Posted by Ernest Werner on 12/09/11 at 10:51 AM | #

Good work Ernest. I’ve no doubt that Knox and Sollecito will increasingly show themselves to have feet of clay, in the precise same way as Salvatore has in the case of Melania Rea. 

Give them enough rope and they’ll hang themselves. As their own people are nervously realizing, it is already starting to happen. No strong push required.

We should maybe profile the super-agent. Have him come here and read for a bit. That may give him some different angles.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/09/11 at 11:21 AM | #

Hello friends. Here,in Italy nobody talks about Meredith’case anymore,and this make me sad.I don’t know if we will ever had justice for her.
Let’s pray God,only Him can help us.

Posted by Matteo_65 on 12/09/11 at 02:30 PM | #

No, it is still not over yet.  This is just the end of the beginning.

If you think she is really free, then I think you are mistaken.  Amanda’s book and TV deals?  Yes, they may be real but I do not know what is the final fate of the money…

I believe her parents engaged the lawyers and the experts and paid for all the other expenses (including the first class airfare) and only they will be responsible. You know how the Italian parents take care of their adult children and how the children act. I seriously think that Amanda will not own up any of the liabilities of her parents. You know how it is.

If she signs the book and the TV deals, that money comes to her.  It will be nice to see how she goes around spilling the beans.  Once she is out of the protection service, which may happen very soon, it will be fun to watch.

European prisons are like 5* hotels; now she has to face real life and let us see how she does it. She still had some chance to reform which she did not use.  God’s punishment is slow but sure.

Too much news made her the celebrity she is today.  Once she is out of the news, she will simply feel lost and get lost.

I have nothing against anybody and I have no malice against her.  But then it is her life and she has to be responsible for her actions.

truejustice moves slowly but grinds well.  Make no mistakes, she is not enjoying her life anymore.

Now the beginning of the end starts.

Posted by chami on 12/09/11 at 03:51 PM | #

Thank you, Peter.  I hope & most willingly believe you are right.  Your greater confidence in the matter rests on a deep realism, the same realism that the deeper morality rests on. As one of the Buddhist scriptures has it, we drag our deeds behind us, regardless.

You are probably also gaining friends in Italy with your coverage of the Melania case.  That will surely help.

Posted by Ernest Werner on 12/09/11 at 04:07 PM | #

hello all,

I recently visited Sharaon Feinstein’s blog.  It was an experience.

Sometime back some young girl committed suicide (I have forgotten the details) because someone with a fake name (pretending to be her boyfriend) abused her over the internet.  I could not believe that then.

When you are anonymous, your true self comes out. What a pity! Several years back, another sick man damaged the famous pieta by Michelangelo.  Sometimes you do not realise how many of them are around you!

One thing is for sure: none of them are spontaneous and they are getting paid for their job and it must have been budgeted- it is being professionally run.

I thought they were told that their campaign is over (means that they will not get paid anymore)? Of course I did not take that seriously- it was just a cover.

Posted by chami on 12/10/11 at 03:10 PM | #

12/10/11
A Meredith Kercher look-alike would shake Foxy up. What if Knox had to sit across from a young woman who looked exactly like Meredith on a TV talk show. Think ghost of Christmas past.  Knox would get the jitters if she saw a woman like Meredith beside her in a Seattle eatery. How fast she would exit the place.

Posted by Hopeful on 12/10/11 at 07:08 PM | #

Dear Peter,do you know if the book “Death in Perugia” has been translated in Italian?

Posted by Matteo_65 on 12/11/11 at 05:22 PM | #


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