Thursday, March 26, 2015

Supreme Court Appeal By RS And AK Against Florence Court Rejection Of Their First Appeal #2

Posted by The TJMK Main Posters



This was in 2009, Meredith’s family, not in court, may hear things came full circle today

Tweets from the court

New tweets from the court if any (we may have to wait for breaks) are being added under the various author’s names below. Numbering flows from Wednesday’s post.

Any breaking news

22. Reason for delay in the announcement is paperwork we believe, there were dozens of reasons for an overturn in the two written appeals, and they would have to be responded to one by one if appeal is denied. The Telegraph seems to be planning a live website feed though it may be from outside. .

21. Here is where Sollecito is headed if he makes it before any guilty verdict and the 2 police cars in his rear mirrors him stop him and take him in:  41°14’37.80"N 16°29’2.50"E Put that into Google Earth search and then descend to street view. Thats the gate for the compound, chez Sollecito is a couple of houses down on the left. Francesco Sollecito has addressed crowds of reporters there. 

20. Video here of RS and his sister Vanessa leaving by side entrance, possibly for Bari. As Florence prosecutors are in court, this may be his way of ensuring he is not photographed being frogmarched out of there.

19. Knox undercut her own defence by stiffing Florence court. Could in new Florence trial face more years for criminal defamation. Moore & Burleigh & Fischer & other PR shills may face citations too, as their excesses outnumber those of Gumbel and Sforza already in court. Tweeting stalkers too. Communication Police looking now.

18. Italian ANSA report is calling RS lawyer Giulia Bongiorno’s address to the court “Bye Bye Amanda” as she says only questionable DNA relates RS to scene of crime. [Oh? Several footprints? Opposing knife wounds? Multi alibis? Computer? Cellphone?]

17. Media, please get it right: Amanda Knox was not “tried in absentia” at Florence “trial”. IT WAS HER OWN APPEAL and Italian lawyers argued with her for a week that she really needed to be there. Having abused so many in Italy, and put drug dealer in jail, was her no-show really such a surprise?

16. Strong-arming unethical Gogerty-Marriott PR firm closes down in Seattle with a final dishonest thump of the chest. Said to be freaked by potential legal liability. Maybe Knox herself should sue as they made her plight much worse.

15. So NYC Sollecito advisor John Q Kelly shows his face again. He was wildly wrong on the hard facts late 2009 and promptly disappeared.

Tweets from journalist Andrea Vogt

17. Heavy media & police presence at Italy’s high court this a.m. for final hearing in #amandaknox case. Sollecito’s defense at 9.

18. Raffaele Sollecito’s Italian and American lawyers Giulia Bongiorno & John Q Kelly just greeted in hall outside Aula Magna

19. Giulia Bongiorno on the lack of DNA from #amandaknox and sollecito in murder room: only a dragonfly leaves no trace.

20. Bongiorno casting doubt on forensic police dna interpretation. “Maybe, in science, does not exist. Either it is Raffaele ‘s dna or not.”

21. High court judges in #amandaknox case are going into deliberations now. They will alert all one hour before they announce decision.

22. Court can: 1) call appeal [outcome] inadmissable 2) accept it 3) reject it 4) annul convictions & back to appellate 5) annul convictions.

23. Members of Florence prosecutor’s office are at Rome court today for decision on #amandaknox / Sollecito appeal of their convictions.

24. #amandaknox convictions have been completely overturned. She is a free woman.

25. Both raffaelle Sollecito and #amandaknox convictions have been fully overturned. Cries of joy in courtroom from sollecito’s family

Tweets from main poster Kristeva

15. Follow @andreavogt as she has better phone reception than me. I apologize

16. Much larger crowd today attending the final hearing for #amandaknox & #RaffaeleSollecito

17. The general feeling among reporters is that #RaffeleSollecito might get a second appeal. no chance 4 #amandaknox

18. Several reporters interested in http://Themurderofmeredithkercher.com and will call me to have more info in the next days

19. I was asked how the #MeredithKercher support website started and I gave the whole history

20. Spoke to Maresca to thank him and in return he thanked our volunteer work for http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com 

21. Reporters were also interested in PR machine for #AmandaKnox and I referred them to http://TrueJustice.org

22. After Bongiorno, Maori will give his arguments and Judges with enter chambers to deliberate verdict

23. Timing of verdict for #amandaknox and #RaffeleSollecito unpredictable. May justice 4 #MeredithKercher prevail. My prayers for family

24. [6.15 am US east coast time] Maori finished. Judges have entered chambers to deliberate verdict.

25. No more appeals. Case over #amandaknox #RaffaeleSollecito acquitted for murder of #MeredithKercher #SHAME

26. I am shocked

Tweets from main poster Machiavelli

17. [no tweets yet]

Tweets from journalist Barbie Nadeau

4.  High court now deliberating fate of #amandaknox and #RaffaeleSollecito in #MeredithKercher murder case.




Comments

“Bye-Bye Amanda”, a speech Bongiorno wanted to make from Day One. Her image of dragonfly not leaving DNA, interesting.

Andrea Vogt putting the media onto TJMK, yay. The truth is multiplying, and she also guides media to TMOMK site. Great open doors to facts of case.

Attorney Maresca’s thanks for the above websites is a wonderful accolade.

The other Maresca, by that I mean Judge Marasca with all “a’s”, seems to know the case well and corrected some people on fine points and details, that was encouraging.

So Marriott agency has closed, wow did David get out of the Knox debacle by the skin of his teeth with miracle exit strategy or did he? I bet Curt Knox wishes he could do same.

Edda looked horrible in photos yesterday with the groceries, the most worried face and stiff body even in motion. Dreadful anxiety, as Amanda floats about on back porch of Edda’s house writing writing writing, probably stories for West Seattle Herald and Mr. Robinson.

@SeekingUnderstanding, I agree with your take on Steve Moore and Burleigh, their “vain attempt to protect themselves” from a guilty verdict. I know we will have to remain stoic if by some bizarre fluke Amanda is given a high five or green light by the Court instead of her deserved prison sentence.
It’s in the hands of the top judges now. We can only trust for a positive outcome.

Oh what a lovely photo of the dear Kercher family in 2009. I imagine that was the last time they felt there was justice in the world. Their looks speak volumes: quietly satisfied that their daughter’s killers were treated properly and found guilty, yet by no means vindictive or arrogant, even in the buoyancy of victory. Their humility is a rare thing.

So John Q. Kelley has not disappeared. His son was in the news about a year ago in some very serious trouble in NYC. I did not share it because I thought Kelley had left the Knox case and deserved compassion. But his son was either rebelling against a good dad or a case of “apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”. Son had lured some women up to his penthouse and then filmed the sexual activity and threatened to release it online or something sneaky, hurtful and dreadful, IIRC. Sounds like a son similar to Knox.

If Sollecito walks, how will we feel? If Amanda walks, how will we feel? What is going to happen? It’s so scary right now waiting for verdict.

Posted by Hopeful on 03/27/15 at 07:13 AM | #

It appears that “World’s foremost DNA Expert’ Peter Gill was paid to give his highly erroneous and not neutral opinion on Italian TV. He did argue contamination via latex gloves in his book. We’ll see if the judges buy that. Either way, article on DNA coming up.

Posted by Ergon on 03/27/15 at 07:41 AM | #

Big Correction: It was Kristeva not Andrea Vogt who was directing media to our site and TMOMK.

Thank you for tweets, Kristeva.

Posted by Hopeful on 03/27/15 at 08:09 AM | #

I am also getting impatient! It is late evening here and I am refreshing the screen every five minutes.

I have a very strange sense of justice: it is cruel to all: the victim does not come back to life, the harm is not undone and the callus grows over the wound. It is not healing.

For the criminal, it is only a moment’s rage and the whole life is changed for ever. How often we have wondered, when a criminal is found living in the neighbourhood, looks like us, talks like us, walks like us but so different underneath. At least when the time comes.

Human justice is only about maintaining discipline and order in the society. God is far more cruel and blind and far more unforgiving. It is also called compassionate.

But no body should get away. They must pay the price. I am waiting to hear what the wise men in the courts say finally.

It is time to kneel down and pray for humanity. And our civilization. We are nothing without these two things…

Posted by chami on 03/27/15 at 09:59 AM | #

Comments on Bongiorno’s frequent references to Hollywood movies like Forrest Gump, makes one wonder if Dragonfly could refer to the 2002 movie by that name. Synopsis: a doctor grieves the death of his wife but keeps seeing signs of her through his patients’ near-death experiences, this from Wikipedia. Dragonfly the movie stars Kevin Costner.

In it the wife had a dragonfly birthmark on her shoulder.

Raffaele has a tattoo on his left shoulder which was visible when he wore a bathing suit in Dominican Republic. I could not tell what the tattoo was.

A big if but if Bongiorno is referencing this movie she might unconsciously be admitting that a dragonfly did leave a mark, an indelible mark like DNA leaves, that was found at a death scene.

This is a fanciful explanation but one main point from the movie is that maybe Bongiorno knows she can’t save Amanda by allowing Raf to cover her with alibi, but that she can save “the child”, one who is intimately connected to Amanda, the child being Raffaele. Since Bongiorno herself was expecting during early parts of the trial, the movie’s themes may have resonated with her.

In movie, doctor’s wife died in Venezuela on medical mission. Her bus went off cliff in landslide and into river. Villagers saved her unborn child who also had a dragonfly birthmark.

More factual is that dragonflies as wiki says are predators and quite territorial. Both the defendants live near water.

It’s a gray rainy day and the wait for verdict led to this digression.

Posted by Hopeful on 03/27/15 at 10:01 AM | #

Make no mistake, Sollecito is guilty as sin: his hurried explanation about how he “pricked” Meredith’s finger with the murder weapon while cooking together (total lie, to justify the presence of Meredith’s DNA on it) speaks volumes.

Confirm conviction for knife-boy, justice must be done.

Posted by Bjorn on 03/27/15 at 10:08 AM | #

If this is true then these may be the best words I have read ever since Meredith’s murder:

“US media might soon stop invites to Knox PR shills due to legal liabilities which freaked Gogerty Marriott off the scene. For same reason, fight against extradition may be non-event.”

The PR and the TV shows have been some of the vilest aspects of this case - after the murder itself.

Of course the very best word WILL BE: “GUILTY”.

Posted by thundering on 03/27/15 at 10:24 AM | #

Thank you very much for this aggregated update. I too am glued to several screens on this know and refreshing a google search for “Amanda Knox trial’ every few minutes as well. I just found this English-subtitled video of the lawyers and Patrick Lumumba going into the court house this am:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2015/mar/27/meredith-kercher-murder-verdict-knox-sollecito-lawyer-speak-video?CMP=share_btn_tw

Posted by Johnny Yen on 03/27/15 at 11:13 AM | #

Wow, I can’t believe that Gogerty-Marriott closed - fantastic news!  Hah.  One less hired PR gun for convicted murderers in business. 

Question for the lawyers:  can Italy still charge Gogerty-Marriott employees or principals for calunnia now that the firm has been closed?

Posted by all4justice on 03/27/15 at 11:18 AM | #

@All4justice

Gogerty-Marriott closed- really? It calls for a celebration! They are the real people behind the perversion of justice!

Posted by chami on 03/27/15 at 12:05 PM | #

Comments on Bongiorno’s frequent references to Hollywood movies like Forrest Gump, makes one wonder if Dragonfly could refer to the 2002 movie by that name. Synopsis: a doctor grieves the death of his wife but keeps seeing signs of her through his patients’ near-death experiences, this from Wikipedia. Dragonfly the movie stars Kevin Costner.

In it the wife had a dragonfly birthmark on her shoulder.

Raffaele has a tattoo on his left shoulder which was visible when he wore a bathing suit in Dominican Republic. I could not tell what the tattoo was.

A big if but if Bongiorno is referencing this movie she might unconsciously be admitting that a dragonfly did leave a mark, an indelible mark like DNA leaves, that was found at a death scene.

This is a fanciful explanation but one main point from the movie is that maybe Bongiorno knows she can’t save Amanda by allowing Raf to cover her with alibi, but that she can save “the child”, one who is intimately connected to Amanda, the child being Raffaele. Since Bongiorno herself was expecting during early parts of the trial, the movie’s themes may have resonated with her.

In movie, doctor’s wife died in Venezuela on medical mission. Her bus went off cliff in landslide and into river. Villagers saved her unborn child who also had a dragonfly birthmark.

More factual is that dragonflies as wiki says are predators and quite territorial. Both the defendants live near water.

It’s a gray rainy day and the wait for verdict led to this digression.

Posted by Hopeful on 03/27/15 at 12:21 PM | #

According to Sallyoo, RS and his girlfriend Greta are now being tailed by two fast unmarked police cars on their way back to Bari.

Posted by Johnny Yen on 03/27/15 at 12:26 PM | #

According to Andrea Vogt, prosecutors from Florence are in the courtroom. They may issue an immediate provisional arrest for AK.

Posted by Johnny Yen on 03/27/15 at 12:28 PM | #

@Johnny Yen, great news about possible provisional arrest for AK immediately. And Greta and Raf dashing towards home with police making sure they don’t detour. It’s intense.

@chami, I agree with you that justice is partly cruel because men are so. There are no real winners, there is no pure joy, only the hope of deterrent and accepting the hard fact that punishment is part of peace to allow society to have in the long haul more peace than less; only God can set the balances perfectly straight using his creative means and affecting the ongoing life circumstances of the perp, of the defendants’ families and the various innocent parties who got mired in disaster by the hands of others.

Posted by Hopeful on 03/27/15 at 01:04 PM | #

Intense indeed.  King5.com seattle says the ruling should come down between 9:00am and 11:00 am local time.  It is 10:20 here now. I would like to get on with my day but don’t want to leave the computer and miss something.

Posted by Mark on 03/27/15 at 01:19 PM | #

From UK Telegraph:

If the decision goes against Amanda Knox today, it will set up a potentially ticklish diplomatic situation for Britain if - as is being widely speculated in the press here - the US drags its feet over any Italian extradition request to return Ms Knox to Italy for trial.

Philip Hammond, the Foreign Secretary, was in Washington today and was asked whether Britain would feel an obligation on behalf of the family of Meredith Kercher, the British victim in the case, to put pressure on the US to meet any extradition request expeditiously.

Mr Hammond was clear that the UK would expect the US to behave properly over the request, in keeping with international law.

“Sometimes the rules-based system delivers an outcome which you find inconvenient, and the test of our democracy and our commitment to the rule of law is that, when inconvenient things happen, we still comply with the rules.

“The British government does this all the time. We get court judgments that we don’t like, but we don’t try to dismiss the court judges, we accept the court’s judgment. So we will always be arguing for compliance with the rule of law.”

Posted by Media Watcher on 03/27/15 at 02:03 PM | #

@hopeful: “There are no real winners ...” that paragraph brought tears to my eyes, beautifully and well said.

Posted by Bjorn on 03/27/15 at 02:07 PM | #

Thankyou Hopeful, for holding the emotional subtext continually before us, like a golden thread that we should always remember and not lose sight of.
And too for showing compassion and strength are not incompatible virtues.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/27/15 at 02:36 PM | #

@SeekingUnderstanding, Thank you. It’s such an eventful day, I’m in comment overdrive from photo streams, tweets from Rome, the comments here and elsewhere, Bongiorno’s two hour sum up equating her poor client to Forrest Gump.  Raffaele Gump.

The movie Forrest Gump made my son cry. It was the scene where Tom Hanks held his dying Army buddy in his arms in combat in Vietnam. Later my son went to fight in Iraq in 2009. In the lonely interval of his absence I found TJMK. Bongiorno’s reference to Forrest Gump stirs up a lot of personal memories, let me limit it to that.

I felt I got a sign from Heaven before my son left for the war. I was on his college campus near a main street when I saw a green balloon drift underneath the heavy wheels of a moving dump truck. As the truck sped uphill, I kept watching and expecting the balloon to pop. Despite bouncing up and down somehow held by the airstream under the chassis as the truck increased speed for a block or two, the balloon slipped away safely and went up up up free and clear. I was stunned. I told my son he was that green balloon. Sure enough he did come home safely and with no injury.

Peter Quennell is the ultimate victim’s rights advocate and sees the big picture and the value of organizing.

Please excuse my double posts, I’m having format probs and am overexcited, too.

Posted by Hopeful on 03/27/15 at 03:30 PM | #

More power to you Hopeful and to Seeking Understanding for your dignified posts on here.And to all the great posters here. Naturally a massive Thanks to Peter Quenell for his amazing diligence and tenacity on providing this platform to inform people about the facts of this case.My thoughts like all of yours are with the Kerchers tonight.

Posted by Olliebear on 03/27/15 at 04:38 PM | #

I feel that TKMK is overloaded- loading slowly and often not loading. Lots of visitors too!

Posted by chami on 03/27/15 at 05:03 PM | #

@Olliebear
Thankyou…and too to everyone, who all contribute. I do not think this site has suffered from a dominant ego (at least not while I have been here)... and I do feel this is because the tone within in group is set from the top, which of course here is our Pete, who has run this site with such skill and generousity and inclusiveness - as you say, remembering the much wider picture and context. Oh, and humour! Thank you Pete.
*
I was pleasantly amazed to see the sudden closure of Gogerty Marriott, and I do think it is grounds for optimism - to me, they might as well as stated ’ well, we know she is guilty really, and don’t want to push our luck any further’...
And very glad to hear the reported words from our foreign minister Philip Hammond about due process being required. We Brits will certainly require all due process and justice for Meredith and her family.
Waiting now, as everyone…

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/27/15 at 05:16 PM | #

Verdict within 10 minutes! You can (maybe) watch it here: http://themurderofmeredithkercher.COM/Amanda_Knox_Court_Decision_Live_Stream

Posted by Johnny Yen on 03/27/15 at 05:23 PM | #

Both acquitted apparently. Unbelievable.

Posted by Odysseus on 03/27/15 at 06:01 PM | #

Shame on the Supreme Court, Cardiol was right to be concerned.

Sorry, Meredith and the Kercher family.

We are now the laughing stock of murderers and their friends, but God is great and He is not mocked.

Be strong, everyone, most of us will live to see the epilogue.

Posted by Bjorn on 03/27/15 at 06:11 PM | #

There really is no justice anymore. It’s all about $$$$$ Buongiorno and Sollecito must have paid someone off for this. Can they be charged with manslaughter? Like Casey Anthony, humanity has been left behind.

Posted by Johnny Yen on 03/27/15 at 06:12 PM | #

Wow

Posted by believing on 03/27/15 at 06:12 PM | #

Is this really called justice?

Nobody killed Meredith Kercher.

Posted by chami on 03/27/15 at 06:26 PM | #

As said, life is watching Hellmans. I’ve learned a lot. Amanda is free now. I will accept that the fully 100%. We’ve talked here a lot about injustice and what is ugly. Thanks for that. It was all full of truth.

Posted by Helder Licht on 03/27/15 at 06:30 PM | #

Heavy heart and sadness.

I have two wishes:
1) that I do not have to hear any further at all about the lives of these two people.
2) that Meredith’s family can begin to find some peace, within their sorrow and loss that remains;, that their lives can be rebuilt and healed as much as possible, and the memories gradually just become the lovely ones - or at least these can be dominant.
All my personal good wishes to you, and Thankyou for all your dignity and good example.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/27/15 at 06:41 PM | #

My heart is broken. This is beyond belief.

Courage failed somebody is my first guess.

I would like to think that pressure and politics played no part and that despite the verdict, it was made with strictly the desire to err on the side of caution rather than imprison young people.

My heart is broken, because I believe two killers got away (for the moment) with murder and are continuing to walk our streets with impunity.

I am so sad for the Kercher family who know what we know about Raffaele and Amanda, all too much.

I am horrified by this decision, but I must abide by the rule of law. I must accept the judges and courts in their legal wisdom, whether I personally agree with them or not otherwise there is chaos and every man is his own law with no recourse left but force. That is what the last seven years have been about defending.

Meredith will require divine justice which never fails.

I am very sad and totally shocked.

Posted by Hopeful on 03/27/15 at 06:44 PM | #

@SeekingUnderstanding

I oftentimes think that it is injustice and inequality that is responsible for the world’s ills. The powerful are always beyond the reach of the law and justice and justice must also appear to be done. We are seeing a rebirth of fundamentalism because both justice and equality have failed in many countries. Too many people are too powerful ...

Posted by chami on 03/27/15 at 06:49 PM | #

Karma will find another way to reach the pair…

Posted by Odysseus on 03/27/15 at 07:02 PM | #

I hope that those of you who are placing your faith in some sort of divine justice will see it materialize.  Personally, I can’t think of a single instance of such justice. The only justice I’ve seen in my life has been that brought about by people for whom accepting corruption, incompetence, and malice was not an option.

The unfortunate thing, as I understand, is that SC decisions cannot be appealed, so I don’t believe there are any avenues left for the prosecution.  Even if there are still people willing to fight, there is not much they can do.

Meredith and her family have been betrayed in an appalling way.  I know that as this case gained prominence, a lot of love and care and compassion have surrounded Meredith and her memory, and perhaps that will be a small comfort to her family and friends.  But I’m not sure that all the love in the world could make up for the justice they were denied.

My hope that justice will eventually catch up with Knox and Sollecito is tainted by the fear that another innocent will have to die before that can happen, as in Joran’s case. If either kills again, I hope every judge who exonerated them is discredited, although I realize that any chance of this happening is close to nil.

I am so dreadfully sorry about this.  It’s not enough that they took Meredith’s life - they also had to take any hope of justice away from her family.

Posted by Vivianna on 03/27/15 at 07:23 PM | #

Injustice is a daily phenomenon. Their’s not a big active need for justice. People live their lives. Their uneducated or their educated lives. People do attract to justice, when they are called to it as to a story. We learn to know the migninis and the marescas. They become nice uncles. Wow.
I guess we have to wait a while in this play. Our alpha projections have come to rest. We do not protect the world. We teach our children. There’s hope! Even for Italy.
Meredith’s pictures still the best! grin

Posted by Helder Licht on 03/27/15 at 07:49 PM | #

Fine words above. Wonderful kind people, the Kerchers, and all those who supported them in the incredibly difficult task of seeking justice within a system which has been cynically so biased over the years so that many in Italy think perps get ALL the breaks.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/italian_campaigner_for_victims_and_their_families_says/

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/A_Token_Balance_In_The_Italian_System_the_voice_in_the_court_for_the_v/

For the record the breaking news box at the top which now reads thus suggests there is a way to go and if the system is slanted more toward victims that will be in Meredith’s name:

Breaking news: Convictions overturned. Now Cassation has to explain in writing in a way that does not smell of a deal. Knox has served three years for calunnia and that felony record stands for life. Also Knox and Sollecito face trials already in motion for their books and for what Knox claimed on the stand in 2009. That their claims were wrong (example here) look not too difficult to prove. An OJ Simpson outcome, Italy style, perhaps?

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/27/15 at 07:56 PM | #

A poem for Meredith:

(by Rabindranath Tagore, an Indian poet, original in Bengali)

A question

For ages, O Lord, you have sent your messengers again and again
into this unkind world.
They all have asked us to forgive and love all.
They asked us to remove the hatred from our heart.
Great words are these: worth admiration and remembrance.
But yet I turn them away with a senseless greeting from my door on this dark day.

For I have seen hatred killing the helpless
Under the cover of the darkness of the night.
I have seen also the crimes of the powerful
And seen justice weeping silently in the corner.

I have seen young boys
Die in agony dashing their heads against stone, in futility.

My voice is choked and my flute is mute.
A black moonless prison
Has submerged my world into darkness.

With tears I ask Thee:

Those who are poisoning your air, those who turning out your light,
Is it true that You have forgiven them? that You have come to love them?

Posted by chami on 03/27/15 at 08:39 PM | #

Thankyou so much chami…I am really tired now - it is 12.47am Saturday here - but I will return tomorrow.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/27/15 at 08:48 PM | #

Registering heartfelt support.
RIP Meredith.

Posted by Bettina. on 03/27/15 at 09:01 PM | #

Cassation Blinded by Pseudoscience! Now it’s Open-Season for Perps whose Guilt has to be proved using Hi-Tech Facts.

Posted by Cardiol MD on 03/27/15 at 09:08 PM | #

I wrote John Kercher Jr:

“Please pass our regrets for this decision to your family. Our prayers will always be with them.”

Naseer Ahmad

Reply:

“Thank you, I will do.”
John Kercher

Some may have wondered, but know this: the Kerchers have always known and appreciated our efforts. You devoted so much of your life to helping them. As Michael of PMF Net says of all of you, there is much goodness here (Hugz)

Posted by Ergon on 03/27/15 at 09:11 PM | #

@Cardiol MD

If the doctor says that I have been infected with differential calculus in the brain, I have no alternative but to trust him.

If the cosmologist says that the universe was created after a big bang, can you really ask back who banged whom?

It is not pseudoscience! Contamination is not a specialization of any biologist: It belongs to errors, noises and statistics. They should have called a mathematician.

“But the real truth could be different”- I am just quoting an ex-justice.

Posted by chami on 03/27/15 at 09:24 PM | #

@Ergon

It has been a human decision. Lawyers and judges are not god, they are just like us. More or less (some people say more on the less side simply because they carry a huge burden).

Only four people know exactly what happened on that night and one of them is no more. All the judges are doing their best guesswork. And this is their judgement.

I believe it is part of their duty to convince us that they have done their job well. Because it will be a terrible world if we all lose our faith in the system. And they are the system.

Posted by chami on 03/27/15 at 09:36 PM | #

I am saddened by the verdict and I am so sorry for the Kercher family. I just don’t get it.

Posted by Vinnie on 03/27/15 at 10:03 PM | #

I remember when I first heard about this sad case and have been following it ever since.  I remember the feelings of shock, sadness and outrage when the guilty two were first released.  I have those same feelings today. I had such hope that justice would be served when Cassation overturned the acquittal. It hadn’t even occurred to me that tonight’s verdict was a realistic possibility.  It will be interesting to see how they explain the sudden change of opinion.

I can only imagine how the Kerchers feel - I hope they take some comfort in the fact that all of us here at TJMK are feeling the pain along with them after a long fight for justice. They have shown such strength and dignity despite everything that has been thrown at them. Peter, and all of the other main posters, a sincere thank you. Your efforts have not been in vain. You remind us that this case is ultimately about the life that was lost, you remind us that no court system is perfect, you exposed the PR campaign for the sham that it was and just how manipulative the media can be. Justice was not served, but this website put forth a valiant effort to expose and disseminate the truth. TJMK will remain a great resource for the truth.  Let’s hope the lucky two who walk free tonight lay low and don’t put the Kerchers through any more unnecessary pain. RIP Meredith.

Posted by Formerlurker on 03/27/15 at 11:14 PM | #

@Formerlurker

I am not feeling pain, I am just feeling angry. Does politics trump everything?

Do you think that the lucky two will really lie low? They will be empowered by their success.

Do you really believe that the efforts of the hundreds of people like us will be just consigned to a waste bin? Will truth never triumph? The tears of the parents have long dried; it had no worth?

Tonight I shall mourn the death of truth. Justice is just a collateral victim.

Posted by chami on 03/28/15 at 12:10 AM | #

Can’t get any sleep.

Just wanted to say this to the “former” murderers: you know you killed, and I know you killed. You somehow eluded justice because some people are cowards, some don’t remember very well, and some don’t care anymore. I know who you are, but you don’t know who I am. There are at least thousands of people like me out there, who know the truth. When the time comes, I will cheer for those who torment or torture you, because you deserve it fully. I have seen in my life people who appeared eternal and indestructible, defended not by a handful of retards, but by an entire army of brutal and ruthless agents—they lost what they had in a blink of an eye, pursued by angry mobs, and many have since passed water on their tombs. For your own good it would have been better to meet your punishment in this life, but just in case you don’t, imagine what happens when you no longer have your physical body to rely on, and real justice screams in your very soul. I know you can’t and/or don’t care right now, but believe me it will be fun. You have taken a life, and you have hurt and humiliated too many people, you will not get away with it.

Posted by Bjorn on 03/28/15 at 01:06 AM | #

It is truly stunning.

Chami, you are likely right.  They will be emboldened by their ‘‘success’‘. 

This ruling makes little sense.  Cassation: (1) Thought in 2008 Knox and Sollecito were too dangerous to release on bail, (2) Ruled that Rudy Guede did not act alone in 2010, (3) Completely annulled Hellmann’s 2011 verdict, (4) Ruled that Knox’s calunnia against Patrick was to divert attention from the murder investigation.  Now there just isn’t enough evidence.

These sick effers thought nothing of ‘authoring’ those books, making TV appearances, visiting Meredith’s grave (or demanding to), and revisiting the old home for memories’ sake—all while still accused.  Now they are free.

There are some small victories that may be seen.

-Knox’s calunnia conviction (against Patrick) still stands.  And as she is facing more aggravated calunnia, she can’t exactly travel freely.

-Sollecito still has his own book trial.  If nothing else, he would likely get ‘‘time served’‘, so he can’t play the innocent card.

-Hopefully, now that the murder proceedings are done, there will be a lot less restriction on releasing things to the U.S. media.  If nothing else, Knox may just be viewed as another Casey Anthony or OJ Simpson.

-Even with the acquittal, I would think (may be wrong), that the U.S. media fascination would be done anyway. What Marriott didn’t seem to realize is that letting Knox speak publicly was the most damaging thing to the ‘‘innocent’’ image.  Remember, it all went downhill after the Diane Sawyer interview.

-Also against going public, Knox’s official reason for being guarded in interviews was ongoing legal reasons.  Now, she has nothing to hide behind awkward questions.  (Though she would likely pull the ‘‘I was acquitted’’ line).

-The families may ‘‘have their children back’‘, but be careful what you wish for. Francesco is still supporting a 31 year old child, who will never be independent.  The Knox/Mellas and Sutherland families will never feel truly safe with Amanda in their midst.

Don’t get me wrong.  The verdict shocked me as well.  They belong in Capanne, not their own homes.  Cassation just let 2 monsters go free.

Justice for Meredith?  Not today.

Posted by Chimera on 03/28/15 at 01:42 AM | #

Like Fox Mulder, I believe the Truth is out there and despite the fact that Knox and Sollecito cannot/won’t be tried again, perhaps this will be the kick up the backside that Rudy needs to finally tell his story.

Bless you Meredith. You have been denied life and now even justice.

Like Joran van der Sloot and George Zimmerman, Knox will be back in the news….she needs the limelight.

Posted by mojo on 03/28/15 at 01:56 AM | #

Like others this decision leaves me feeling dumbfounded, confused and bitter. With over 10,000 pages of evidence the Supreme Court of Appeal seems to have reached the verdict that nobody was expecting. Not least the many of us who have followed and contributed to this site for many years.

The only consolation that we now have is that Rudy Guede will surely not maintain his continued silence whilst both Knox and Sollecito court fame and financial gain from exploiting and milking worldwide media interest. There has to come a point when Rudy says enough is enough and decides to tell his side of the story. Maybe not now but at some point in the future.

The BBC are reporting that Knox and Sollecito will be able to claim damages for wrongful imprisonment? Maybe, just maybe reading about that whilst sat penniless in a Perugia prison cell will prompt Rudy into revealing more details about Knox and Sollecitos involvement. No matter how long it takes I am convinced that the truth will prevail in the end with Rudy Guede revealing more details. There will be people who already will be thinking that there is money to be made by having Rudy’s name on the front of a ‘tell all’ book deal.

Time will tell. In the meantime our thoughts and prayers remain with the Kercher family & Meredith whose life, so full of promise, was cut short so brutally.

Posted by james99 on 03/28/15 at 03:02 AM | #

Guede can say what he wants when he wants.After all, he’s had years to open his mouth. No… its over, finished. they won. they are free as birds.

Guede has no credibility.

I’ve never understood why he didn’t tell all… he’s been sat there over seven years.. Guedes got nothing to say….

its finished…..lets all go home and forget it now

What a world we live in…...

Posted by mollythecat on 03/28/15 at 03:21 AM | #

I can’t help feeling there’s more to the last-minute “doubts” of Genny Ballerini than meets the eye. We were being told that Nencini was maybe not as rock solid as we might have thought - were we being softened up for the bombshell to come?

Anyway, I personally have had it with Italian justice. It’s farcically slow, cumbersome, contradictory and they end up tying themselves in all kinds of legal knots, culminating in crazy verdicts like this - which inevitably will give off the stink of corruption,  even if there is none.

Frankly it’s little wonder that the mafia get away with so much.

Posted by Odysseus on 03/28/15 at 04:43 AM | #

Guede can’t speak because he’s probably paid by who we all know. Somebody tried to buy Kokomani too. Aviello was paid by sollecito. Guede also can’t speak because all he could say would cause for him more legal troubles and costs too. he can’t just say: we all three held her down and Amanda stabbed Meredith,because that would destroy his “innocence” too, and made him a liar, he did swore in court he was in toilet when the murder happened.But it’s interesting, that nobody is now accused of break in,not Guede either, so who did that,and who pays for the landlord for breaking her window?

Posted by Poppins on 03/28/15 at 05:23 AM | #

It took a prompt from a reporter for Knox to find any words for Meredith. After looking down and looking awkward she finished with “I’m the lucky one”.  I’m surprised she didn’t hold her thumb up to her nose and start wiggling her fingers.

Ditto Formerlurker.

RIP Meredith.

Posted by DavidB on 03/28/15 at 06:00 AM | #

Hello Odysseus
That is a perceptive insight into Ballerini, I feel. Why was she allowed to speak so publicly, with no counter-speech, at this point otherwise?

I also sadly agree with your sentiments about the Italianjustice system. In fact, it was my reaction : this presents the Italian justice system as weak - “It weakens Italian justice…” were my first words. I particularly feel for Judge Nencini - it must be very difficult for him. Roll on reform, I hope this turbo-charges the progress towards it.
Italian justice has let England down. Many of us here in England will never, ever, forget.

One of the worst aspects of this case has been the emboldening of liars and lying. That is a terrible thing for a society that wishes to be civilised. But it makes one ever more determined to uphold, and fight for civilized values and behaviour.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/28/15 at 06:34 AM | #

Hi SeekingUnderstanding

Agreed. I suppose one small thing this case has finally given us is an increased appreciation of our own system of justice (though this will be of scarce comfort to the Kercher family).

Of course our judicial system can be stuffy and out of touch but there’s something truly Byzantine and anachronistic about the Italian approach to justice. I’m surprised we didn’t get the final verdict via smoke signals from the court.

Posted by Odysseus on 03/28/15 at 07:15 AM | #

Hi, Odysseus and SeekingUnderstanding, while I agree with you in general on the Italian system, let’s not forget that it caved to American pressures, not Italian.

The Italians had no problem letting their own boy rot in prison for murdering a foreigner, while the Americans pulled all sorts of heavy-handed dirty tricks to get their murderer out of there. They’ve done before for soldiers then set them free with a slap on the wrist, they did it in this case for civilians using means suitable for the masses, i.e., it had to look good on TV, and the networks gleefully cooperated.

At a high level, this Supreme Court ruling is ideal for the US: the special relationship between Britain and America will continue to exist (whatever that means), there will be no need to make/refuse an embarrassing extradition request, the relationship between the US and Italy will return to normal (whatever that means), because they let the girl off the hook (and they *had* to let the boy off the hook, too, that’s the kicker, because otherwise it would have looked weird), and as far as Italy and Britain are concerned, well, diplomacy goes a long way when they meet at the UN in New York, NY, USA (it would be completely naive to ignore basic human psychology under such conditions and subtle pressures).

I guess we should all be wondering who really pulled the strings in this particular ruling, and exactly what forces were involved—I would not be surprised if they went way up and they originated from you-know-where.

Posted by Bjorn on 03/28/15 at 11:12 AM | #

Yes, Bjorn, these are my feelings too.
After Nencini, I was impressed by the thoroughness and carefulness of the system, that appeared to have corrected the very un-thorough Hellman appeal.
Even if they do take an excruciatingly long time, and are ponderous about every detail, I thought, - if it means they get to the correct, balanced conclusion in the end, it will have been worthwhile.

So last night’s verdict was an unexpected shock, which does not seem consistent with previously arrived at conclusions, (for example, the staged break-in was agreed; the evidence required more than one accomplice, etc).

It is all very unsatisfactory. I can only feel that the extradition question finished it off : Italy didn’t want to have to insist, and the U.S. didn’t want to refuse, and too, didn’t want endless resistance and fuss.
But England, and the English family of Meredith, had to suffer.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/28/15 at 11:44 AM | #

@Bjorn

True.

However re “let’s not forget that it caved to American pressures, not Italian”, possibly - but we can’t be sure, not yet anyway. There are indications apparently that the Sollecitos knew the acquittal was coming (I wish I could find where I read that!); by all accounts Sollecito senior has a lot of clout and masonic connections, etc.

Posted by Odysseus on 03/28/15 at 12:57 PM | #

“Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.” Sir Walter Scott

Love to the Kerchers. Tears for Meredith.

Posted by mylady007 on 03/28/15 at 01:34 PM | #

@Odysseus on 03/28/15 at 01:57 PM

1. Ballerini mentioned her economic conditions; money is an important consideration for all and it works charms.

2. I remember C&V; they were not exactly professional. What was their motivation?

3. Why Guede is so calm and quiet? He was asked to wait for the reward- after all, he will be getting out rather soon.

4. Ergon guessed it right; but he stopped digging just when he was about to discover the truth!

Americans speak softly but carry a big stick!

(no offence meant to any- just a collection of random thoughts)

Posted by chami on 03/28/15 at 01:45 PM | #

When I saw the picture of Raphaele arriving on Wednesday 25th, I was startled by how happy and relaxed he looked. I remarked on it to a friend. Likewise when he left (early) to go to Bari, he looked quite untroubled.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/28/15 at 02:56 PM | #

Lizzie Borden got off, too.  But she will always be remembered as a murderess.

Posted by mylady007 on 03/28/15 at 03:20 PM | #

This case and how it seems to end wakes up some serious guestions in my mind, like: Should EU human rights court take this case and overturn this ruiling? Does it have a power to do so since one EU nation is clearly corrupt or unable to give logical sentence for murderers? Shouldn’t british court take this case because citizen was murdered abroad? Should this italian judge be fired and accused in court for corrupt and illogical work, maybe the judge has lost his mind or is unable to do his job? Something has to happen,this court desicion can’t stay like this.it’s just ridiculous.

Posted by Poppins on 03/29/15 at 05:15 AM | #

@Poppins
I agree, this result reflects extremely poorly on the Italian justice system. If I were Italian, Perugian perhaps, I would be furious that this judgement was being given in my name, so to speak.
Many of the English were full of patronising derision about the Italian justice system, previously (what with Hellman, etc), - and I stood up for it, as much as I could.
I feel betrayed by it now.
I hope what has happened isn’t swept under the carpet. Perhaps this could be a turning point for reform (as Pete also writes about). It needs to be.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/29/15 at 05:34 AM | #

what kind of justice system is this ? . this is not justice, we all know. we are just trying to help ourselves by believing the system or judges are correct. but we all know it is not. powerful people have won in the past and will continue to win in future. ournsytem is a failure to a cery large extent. justice have not been given and injustice is done to a lot of people on this planet. this is just a small example. and since day one i feared this and also had raised my doubts exactly about this verdict.  those 2 rascals are free now, and i have have no doubt that they will be free forever and even lead a good happy life.. and i absoulutely do not beleive to have faith in such system just for the sake of it. from judges to lawyers to jurys to witness… they all can be bought or sold or be helpless or be blind.
thanks to all here for the support and help for meredithand her family.
nothing much left now. in other words, they won. justice grace humanity love kindness and   peace LOST

Posted by sikandar on 03/30/15 at 10:21 AM | #


Make a comment

If you are reading this please log in to post a comment.

Smileys



Where next:

Click here to return to The Top Of The Front Page

Or to next entry Meredith May Not See Justice (Yet) But She Will Leave At Least Three Legacies

Or to previous entry Supreme Court Appeal By RS And AK Against Florence Court Rejection Of Their First Appeal