Wednesday, October 29, 2014

The Knox Interrogation Hoax #15: Dr Mignini’s Account Of Formal Warning Session Ending 5:45 AM

Posted by The TJMK Main Posters



Dr Mignini examines Knox July 2009 on the “interrogation” at her own initiative

1. Overview Of This Post

Post #1 includes an overview of the entire series and links to all posts up to this one.

Knox has repeatedly claimed that Dr Mignini was present at the informal summary/recap session led by Inspector Rita Ficarra, the actual purpose of which was merely for Knox to suggest a few possible leads the police might interview.

He wasn’t there, though. And he has repeatedly explained that at the second session ending with a second insisted-upon statement by Knox at 5:45 AM, his entire role was to read Knox her rights, and to advise her to say no more until she had appointed lawyers. (Regardless, she then insisted on dictating that second statement.)

Dr Mignini more than anyone else at the central police station that night developed a complete overview of how the two sessions had proceeded.

THREE TIMES Knox willingly put herself under his questioning (December 2007, January 2008, July 2009) to attempt to shake this. While his questioning was formal, polite and quite mild, Knox’s recollection of 5-6 November was scrambled or devious (some think she and RS were both high on hard drugs).

So by the end of those sessions Knox seems to have made a complete disbeliever of Dr Mignini, swayed few if any in Italy, and certainly did not sway the judges of the trial court or any appeal court.

But few English-language reporters other than Andrea Vogt, John Follain and Barbie Nadeau have interviewed and reported Dr Mignini in depth fairly, and there are a number of English-language reporters to whom he kindly gave time who mangled what he lucidly and fairly explained to them.

In July 2009 Dr Mignini wrote an acerbic email to Linda Byron of Seattle TV to attempt to straighten out her own understanding, and although she seemingly tried to hide it, we captured it and translated and posted in full his explanation.

Highly worth reading.

In mid 2011 a similar thing happened. Drew Griffen of CNN was given a three-hour on-camera interview - and sarcastically broadcast cherrypicked and mangled responses from Dr Mignini. Again we obtained Dr Mignini’s full statement, and Skeptical Bystander posted the whole thing in three long parts, with translation by Clander, Yummi, Jools, Thoughtful, TomM and Catnip.

Again, highly worth reading.

In the first 20 minutes of the second hour of the interview, Drew Griffen tried to give Dr Mignini a hard time over the so-called Knox interrogation. Drew Griffen was abysmally informed of the testimony at trial we have been posting and had no idea of the substance of Knox’s one interview on 5-6 November or the fact that this was merely a recap/summary session not ever requiring recording.

Dr Mignini had not himself testified at trial, and he led the testimony of others present on 5-6 November very fairly and without defense protests about any bias. And Dr Mignini is not under oath here. However this 20-minute segment is important, for it reinforces that Knox was treated extremely fairly and she had no genuine reason for complaint about it.

2. From Mid-2011 Interview By CNN With Dr Mignini

0’40’’ English question [Translator’s note: These words are in English in the Italian transcript of which this document is a translation.]

0’48’’ CNN: You didn’t interrogate Amanda?

0’50’’ Mignini: Oh, the police interrogated her. I was told about it. I wanted to explain this. I remember that I had gone to sleep and the director of the flying squad, Dr. Profazio, called me, because he tells me: “There are developments; Raffaele in fact has denied what he had said before”. So I went down and the head of the flying squad told me what had happened. At some point they tell us that Amanda has made this statement.

And thus her interrogation as a person informed of the facts was suspended by the police in compliance with Article 63 of the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure [c.p.p. - Codice di Procedura Penale], because if evidence appears that incriminates the person, the person being questioned as a person informed of the facts can no longer be heard, and we must stop. “Everyone stop! There must be a defense attorney [present]”. And thus the police stopped and informed Amanda, who had placed herself on the scene of the crime and who said that she had accompanied Lumumba and let him in and that then Lumumba, in the other room, allegedly committed a sexual act and killed Meredith. This is what she said.

2’11’’ Then I was called, I was informed about this, I went to Amanda who, I remember how she was, what she looked like, I remember her very well, she remained imprinted in my memory, I still remember then two things about Amanda that struck me at the time: first, she looked like she was relieved of a burden and second, she was like, and this is another detail that was impressive, it seemed as if she was terrified of Lumumba.

20’48’’ Then I, as I had in some way to, let’s say… this police interrogation had been suspended. At that point I remember that… they made me notice that Amanda, because she wanted to go on talking, I remember she had, like a need to. So I told her: “you can make statements to me; I will not ask questions, since if you make a spontaneous statement and I collect it, I will collect your statement as if I were in fact a notary”. She then repeated [her story] to the interpreter, who was Mrs. Donnino, I remember there was a police woman officer who wrote the statement down [verbalizzava], I did not ask questions. She basically repeated what she had told the police and she signed the statement. Basically I didn’t ask Amanda questions. Not before, since the police asked them and I was not there, and not after, since she made spontaneous statements. Had I been asking her questions, a defense attorney should have been there. This is the procedure.

05’24 CNN: She had an interpreter during the whole time?

05’26’’ Mignini: Yes.

05’29’’ CNN: She says no.

05’32’’ Mignini: Look the interpreter was there, when I heard her there was the interpreter. The interpreter Anna Donnino, who is an interpreter for the police; she was hired by the police.

Just like I believe that there was [before], I do not have the minutes now, but yet now this is a fact, it is undisputed that there was an interpreter.

06’02’’ CNN: Amanda Knox says she was interrogated for 14 hours…

06’11’’ Mignini: No, look, absolutely not. At 1 a.m., the minutes of Nov 6th has started at 1 a.m. and I arrived, 14 hours that cannot be, we are really… that’s absolutely impossible. So the minutes were done at one o’clock, then the minutes of the spontaneous declaration was taken at 5.45, it maybe lasted half an hour because no questions were asked. She made her statements; they were translated; then at around 8 a.m., I think, at approximately 8, I drew up the detention order. Thus it is… well, she had been heard earlier, so she had been questioned as a person informed of the facts at around one forty-five a.m. She had previously been heard by a female police officer, but [that’s] because she had gone voluntarily to the police and she reported that, she said things quite relevant to the investigation of Raffaele and was heard by the inspector [Rita] Ficarra. However this [event] ... I was not there, I do not know [about it]. But remember, there are the minutes. Then the minutes in which she was questioned as a person informed of the facts starts at 1:45 of November 6, and cannot have lasted 14 hours ... in no way whatsoever. Then she was arrested at around 8 a.m. or at about 9 a.m. or so.

08’16’’ Mignini: Look, I remember what I saw when I saw her personally, because she said, I told her: “you can make, if you deem it [necessary], a spontaneous statement, because Italian law provides for this. If a person is aware that he/she is suspected [under investigation], may request to speak before a magistrate, it happened many times, they came also to me, and they say “I want to make a statement”. Very well, I listen. If I listen, I wanted this to be highlighted…. to be clear, I listen and that’s all, and I ask no questions, the defense attorney may be not present. But if I ask questions and I object to the facts [of your answers], it is like an interrogation and thus we would need a defense attorney.

09’10’’ CNN: was [Amanda Knox] scared?

09’11’’ Mignini: Well, I recall this feeling that I had in that moment which, [as] I am explaining to you, in the spirit in which I am doing this interview, to explain to you the acceptance [adozione] of our requests [provvedimenti], what was, why the trial went in a certain way. [Translator’s note: The Italian in the CNN transcript is nearly incomprehensible. We have provided the foregoing on a best effort basis.]

09’36’’ She was, she seemed to me like she was uplifted, freed of a weight, and terrified of Lumumba. That’s an impression that has stayed with me, yet I don’t understand. I remember that there was a policeman who was called, from the SCO [Servizio Centrale Operativo] in Rome, who made an impression on me because he was very fatherly. She was crying as though freed of a great weight, and he was trying to console her. I remember there was also a policewoman who, well, she…[missing word?] and I’m sure that.. [missing word?] .. well, all that picture how it was described later… at that moment it wasn’t like that. Right then, there was a situation in which I was trying to console her, to encourage her, because actually we believed that she had told the truth.

11’03’’ CNN: No one hit her?

11’06’’ Mignini: No, look, absolutely not. I can state this in the most positive way, and then, let’s say… I wasn’t there when she was being questioned by police, the rooms are quite far away… you don’t know but I was… it’s quite far, there’s a corridor, and I was with the director, Dr. Porfazio, and she was being questioned in a different place. I also remember that passing through, I also saw Sollecito who was alone in a different room; he was also being questioned, as I recall. I don’t exclude…well…it’s clear that I wasn’t there, but I don’t believe that anything whatsoever happened, and in my presence absolutely not.

11’55’’ On the contrary, there was an attitude of… I mean they gave her [some] ... [missing word?] then she was like, you know, like someone crying from a sense of liberation, as though she had been freed. That was the attitude.

12’51’’ CNN: Why wasn’t there any video or transcript of those hours?

13’00’’ Mignini: Look, that’s, I was at the police station, and all the…let’s say…when I made investigations in my own office, I taped them. I taped them, we have an apparatus for that, and I transcribed them. For example, there’s the interrogation of the English girls, Meredith’s friends, it was all taped. The interrogations of Amanda in prison were taped, and then transcribed, and we have the transcripts of… But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else. Also because, I can tell you, today, even then, but today in particular, we have budget problems, budget problems that are not insignificant, which do not allow us to transcribe. Video is very important…I completely agree with you that videotaping is extremely important, we should be able to have a video recording of every statement [verbale di assunzione di informazioni] made Because what is said is very important, but it’s maybe even more important how it is said, the non-verbal language. Because from the non-verbal language you can [missing words].

15’14’’ Mignini: It isn’t only Amanda, it’s always like that. But I wanted to say that I agree with him that it’s fundamental, only there’s a problem, especially when the witnesses are so numerous, and in fact just recording, I mean recording the sound, isn’t enough according to me.

15’38’’ CNN: It doesn’t cost much, he says.

15’40’’ Mignini: Well we have significant budget problems, that’s what it is.

15’38’’ CNN: So in the end, you did get a confession. But then, everything that was written in the confession became a lie?

16’16’’ Mignini: But then, there was the fact that she placed herself at the scene of the crime, and Lumumba wasn’t there, together with the three of them, the two of them, but Rudy was there, according to the facts that emerged later. But the fact of having accused…and she’s even accused of calumny in regard to Lumumba, was an element that was very important from the point of view of her legal position at the trial. Why accuse someone of participating in a crime, placing yourself at the scene of a crime? Because with those declarations, she placed herself at the scene, at the place of the crime. And she placed someone there who was a complete stranger to it. Why did she do that? There is one detail that’s particularly significant. Above all when Lumumba was arrested and no one – if it hadn’t been for the Public Prosecutor’s Office that conducted the investigation, and that is mandated to seek elements in favor of the accused, Lumumba would have stayed in prison. But we investigated, and we saw that Lumumba wasn’t involved, that he was the object of calumny and so he was freed and the case against him was archived.

18’15’’ CNN: Was she asked to imagine what might have happened?

18’24’’ Mignini: No, absolutely not. Either you saw a person or you didn’t. I can’t ask someone what they imagine because it would be a question that doesn’t mean anything, that I even don’t understand.

This really does finish our posting of the case for the prosecution on this “interrogation” issue, though at least half a dozen other investigators provided supportive testimony which we have not yet quoted.

Next, how all of the Italian courts up to Cassation concluded that Knox’s claims were unsupported, contradictory, and damaging, and how her three-year prison sentence served was well justified.




Comments

Marvelous Mignini. He warned Knox to hush and to wait for a lawyer. He also recalled her intense relief after she placed herself at the scene of the crime although she substituted Lumumba for Rudy.

Mignini saw her physical reaction. He said it was as if a great weight had lifted off of Knox, but that she also showed or pretended great terror of Lumumba during the same reaction.

Perhaps her fear was not fake but because she knew there would be a heavy backlash on her when the untruth of the Lumumba part of her story was discovered. And in fact her primitive misgivings were prophetic, as it was for the calumny against Lumumba that she served years in prison.

Mignini was not questioning Amanda much less pressuring her or coercing statements. She herself overrode his counsel of prudence and silence and he said she seemed like she had “a need” to talk and to make statements.

He warned her he would accept them as a notary, that they would be serious documents not to be confused with a girlish notebook of creative writing. He cautioned her and recommended she get a defense attorney.


Just a thought but Mignini may have even been aware of Lumumba’s bar or had walked by it and seen it in passing or perhaps known of Lumumba slightly since Lumumba did try to stir up community music events and recruit students as clientele to promote his bar.

Lumumba was trying to grow his business and was advertising in the open streets for patrons.

Lumumba may not have been a complete unknown to the local Perugians.

Suddenly Amanda claims this fellow was with her and murdering a roommate, that he had Amanda paralyzed with fear? Maybe several of the local police knew Lumumba already or had drunk at his bar or patrolled the bar.

Mignini emphasizes to Drew Griffen that it was his Perugian police force who went to bat to find the truth about Lumumba. It was the police not a liar like Amanda who extricated an innocent guy from prison. The police were impartial and diligent. They did not rely on anyone’s word alone as fact but checked it for proof. If they did this with Patrick they did it with Amanda and Raffaele and Guede as well.

Thank you to the many great translators who gave us this interview of Mignini. He is awesome, a lion of Perugia and a pillar of light.

Posted by Hopeful on 09/30/14 at 04:50 PM | #

Here’s some stuff from Wikipedia on the Fifth Amendment, probably well-known among Americans like Knox:

“The Fifth Amendment protects individuals from being forced to incriminate themselves. Incriminating oneself is defined as exposing oneself (or another person) to “an accusation or charge of crime,” or as involving oneself (or another person) “in a criminal prosecution or the danger thereof.”[35] The privilege against compelled self-incrimination is defined as “the constitutional right of a person to refuse to answer questions or otherwise give testimony against himself or herself. ... “[36] To “plead the Fifth” is to refuse to answer any question because “the implications of the question, in the setting in which it is asked” lead a claimant to possess a “reasonable cause to apprehend danger from a direct answer”, believing that “a responsive answer to the question or an explanation of why it cannot be answered might be dangerous because injurious disclosure could result.”“

I have a hard time imagining Knox “taking the 5th” and clamming up, this felonette came out of the assembly line already broken beyond repair - she felt the need to scream to the world that she felt liberated from having just killed someone, but couldn’t do that for obvious reasons, so instead she liberated herself a little more by blaming a patsy.

Posted by Bjorn on 09/30/14 at 05:41 PM | #

Hi Hopeful

A very fair take. The police also devoted dozens of manhours to to checking out the seven leads Knox had named on the night (two of whom were ‘Patrik” and in disguise Guede).

These hoaxes (see right column for a list of more, though this is the linchpin one - destroy this and Knox’s political support and case to EHCR decisively disappear) break yet more records for this case.

(No Knox supporters seem to realise the huge danger in this yet.)

The number of false claims that the hoaxes have spawned must number up in the 10’s of thousands now. Here is the notorious chapter 10 of Knox’s 2013 book which spawned more than a few.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/documents/perugia/2013KnoxBookChapter10.pdf

In fact the entire chapter is made up. Barely a single word is true, and Knox faces new court action for it for sure. We will be identifying each false claim in the book in later posts in this series.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 10/01/14 at 09:19 AM | #

Hi Bjorn

As you obviously see, Knox was extremely difficult to calm down or shut up!

The use of hard drugs on 5 Nov (tip from Sollecito camp) may mean neither has any clear recollection of the sessions that night.

Knox had been in touch with her drug kingpin that same day. Phone records prove that and police have known it all along. Remember they delayed coming to the questura for 2 hours that night, and yet again Knox was acting weird.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 10/01/14 at 09:31 AM | #

So AK was high Nov. 05 as well? Interesting. Pity no blood tests taken upon arrest, only a hair analysis too early to show meaningful results. But yes, her behavior that night was quite manic.

Posted by Ergon on 10/01/14 at 09:50 AM | #

Pete and Ergon,

Have never understood the police testing for drugs. The tests, I gather, proved negative. Both Sollecito and Knox admitted they smoked weed, so why didn’t it show up? Hair samples are what analysts most commonly use for long term use because hair retains any drug traces even weeks and months after. Yet Sollecito admitted he was an habitual user - strange. Does anyone know for a fact what were the actual test results from police sources?

Posted by John Forbes on 10/01/14 at 05:56 PM | #

Contrary to popular belief I remember any tests were done since both of them were already indited and therefore tests were unnecessary since positive or negative it would have changed nothing.
Point being I haven’t read anything in all these reports that indicated that tests were done anyway.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 10/01/14 at 09:22 PM | #

The police/prosecution point of view is essentially as Grahame says, but it might be useful to offer a couple of reasons why. .

First, the entire Italian system is geared away from strong punishment for small crimes. Pursuing them could exhaust those working in the system to no great purpose and fill what is a very small prison system to the brim. Prison sentences under three years are rarely handed out and even more rarely served.

So why even pursue the collection of evidence for drug users? It is the dealers who they really want to put away (and in Knox’s case her dealer WAS put away - ironically thanks to his name being on her phone - maybe why she so fears going back.).

And second, arguing that the two were being impacted by hard drugs was something the prosecution thought the defense should choose to do if anyone did. The prosecution did believe both were on drugs much of the period 2 to 6 Nov but didnt want to see years lopped off the final sentences because a jury downgraded the sheer controlled nastiness of the crime to something the perps couldnt help.

But the defenses never went that route, except fleetingly, when RS’s lawyer Maori actually suggested that it was only Knox who was on the hard drugs around then.

That was not too believable for a long time.  But now we have the story out in the open in the US and UK of Knox linking up daily with this drug kingpin who later went to jail. And of course throughout the period 2 to 6 Nov it was Knox who acted more seriously weird.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 10/01/14 at 09:55 PM | #

Well this is part of the mystery here. We are really relying on journalists and writers. Follain, I think mentioned tests were carried out and proved negative - but where did he get this from? I would find it hard to believe that tests were not performed, and given the fact they were using drugs, practically impossible that tests returned negative. Whether in the US UK or Italy, the person involved receives a copy of the test results plus a sample should they wish to have it tested themselves. So both Knox and Sollecito have these. Does anyone know whether these test results are mentioned in court documents?

Posted by John Forbes on 10/01/14 at 10:12 PM | #

Hi, all, Barbie Nadeau confirmed

“...As for Amanda and Raf, when they were finally arrested, on November 6, only the slightest trace of narcotics was found through hair samples - not even enough to identify the substance…”

so I checked out the various drug sampling kits.
...

“8. How soon after use can a drug be detected in hair?

It takes approximately 4-5 days from the time of drug use for the affected hair to grow above the scalp. Body hair growth rates are generally slower and cannot be utilized to determine a timeframe of drug use.

9. What is the shortest time period that can be evaluated?

The minimum time period is approximately two weeks (1/4 inch)...”

Blood and urine tests are good for about two days after the fact. The police should have waited two weeks for the hair test, and also taken blood and urine samples upon arrest, which would at least have proved what drugs were taken November 05.

Unfortunately would not be of probative value, but Maori’s insinuation has now at least made it into the public consciousness.

Posted by Ergon on 10/02/14 at 09:44 AM | #

Hi, if it’s any help, I have some experience with hair analysis, I suspected I had a mineral imbalance and had at least 3 or 4 tests done over a couple of years.

The analysis was done for minerals, not for drugs, but I really cannot see how anyone can collect a hair sample so close to the scalp, and keep in mind that in general the labs need a tuft of hair weighing a couple of grams, which means that the strands must be about an inch long or so - the result will be an average level over many months due to the hair growth rate.

See here how the hair collection is done for normal people, if the hair is short, one needs to cut more of it, the closer to the scalp the better:

http://www.peak-health-now.com/hair-analysis-test.html

For AK & RS, I believe the results were averaged with whatever they ingested in the prior months (e.g., when AK was still in Seattle).

Posted by Bjorn on 10/02/14 at 11:34 AM | #

Excellent article. And that is a very scary photo of Knox! WOW! As for their erratic behavior, remember Antonio Curatolo testified that they were acting quite high on drugs when he saw them. And, for sure, he would know that.

And I just got a new idea. Let’s start a campaign to remind the American media that the US extradited an American murderer named “Dylan Ryan Johnson” last year:

“US Citizen Extradited To Mexico For 10 Year Old Murder With Conflicting Accounts”

http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/05/us-citizen-extradited-to-mexico-for-10-year-old-murder-with-conflicting-accounts/#ziHLIiYqWpkYtvO2.99

“U.S. national sentenced to 13 years in Guanajuato murder”

http://www.mexicogulfreporter.com/2013/04/us-national-sentenced-to-13-years-in.html

Guadalajara -
“Dylan Ryan Johnson, a 29 year old American citizen from Greene County, Pennsylvania, has been sentenced to 13 years in prison after a Mexican judge convicted him in the 2003 murder of a 16 year old Guanajuato boy.”

“Greene was extradited to Mexico by U.S. authorities in December 2012, and was recently tried by a state district criminal court. He was also ordered to pay restitution of 32,000 pesos to his victim’s parents - less than $2,700 dollars.”

Continued…


Please tweet the above stories and retweet the below:

https://twitter.com/_JohnnyYen_/status/517683938798874624

Thank you.

Posted by Johnny Yen on 10/02/14 at 12:52 PM | #

I know that in Italy anyone who has had a driving licence revoked for driving whilst over the alcoholic limit or under the influence of drugs must attend a testing clinic when reapplying for a licence. You have to provide two samples - blood or urine, which indicates the level of most recent use, and hair samples indicating long term or habitual use. That’s why I find it so strange that nothing substantial really showed up with Sollecito. But we are still relying on writers - Follain and Nadeau. I would like to see the actual results and wondering why AK and RS don’t post them.

Posted by John Forbes on 10/02/14 at 01:18 PM | #

Shocking news:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2777526/Oscar-Pistorius-secret-nine-minute-phone-call-ex-girlfriend-shortly-killing-Reeva-Steenkamp.html Daily Mail

“Secret call: Oscar Pistorius spoke to ex-girlfriend Edkins, 25, who was called Babyshoes in his phone, for nine minutes on the eve he shot Reeva Steenkamp”

“Mobile phone data uncovered by South African journalists Barry Bateman and Mandy Wiener during the research for their forthcoming book Behind The Door, show that Pistorius was on the phone to Miss Edkins on the eve of the killing. Miss Edkins, who was stored in Pistorius’ phone book as ‘Babyshoes’, is one of the few former lovers to speak out in support of the Paralympian after the killing.”

Police did not discover the nine-minute phone call, and Miss Edkins never gave a statement to the authorities

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-made-secret-9-4363332 The Mirror

“Mobile phone data showed Pistorius was on the phone when he arrived home that evening.

Further investigations have revealed that the number was used by Edkins but had been registered in her father’s name.

It appears police investigators did not make this connection.

Jenna was never questioned by the authorities and she never gave them a statement.

The prosecution has declined to comment on how this potential piece of evidence was missed.”

——

I also do not believe that the full story of Amanda Knox’s cell phone calls has been revealed to us yet.

Posted by Ergon on 10/02/14 at 02:17 PM | #

@Johnny Yen, yes it is a scary photo of Knox above and what about her scary H.O.T. video full of ghouls and demonic destruction, and that is exactly what this new boyfriend Colin Sutherland seems to be into, may God save him from hiimself. See his project at http://thehauntedlifeshow.weebly.com

Mr. Sutherland, I beg you to turn away from all this darkness. It is dangerous to soul and spirit. Identity issues are not solved like this.

This poor fellow Knox has her claws into now, an American Sollecito perhaps, is named Colin “Thunderstrike” Sutherland. He admires the Marvel Comics character known as Thunderstrike.

Sutherland attends one of the most expensive universities in the USA. It’s named Sarah Lawrence and costs $63,200 a year in tuition, a private liberal arts college in Bronxville, NY ranked #1 as most expensive college according to the Chronicle of Higher Education 2013.

Daddy must be rich or his son got great scholarships, yet he is out chasing ghosts and paranormal activity, going off to seek ghosts and hauntings. I can only wonder what Knox will be up to this Halloween with such a boyfriend. It brings back the horrors of Poltergeist.

Sutherland is a rock musician. The last guy Knox dated was a musician.

Colin Sutherland and his friend Winston Shaw (who doesn’t believe in ghosts) are planning to travel through Kentucky and Ohio starting this November 3rd to seek for extreme experiences and ghost stories around campfires. They plan to stay in haunted hotels and to play rock music at haunted nightclubs (Bobby Mackey’s Music World in Cincinnati, Ohio they mention).

They are staying at the Seelbach Hotel in Louisville, Kentucky rumored to be haunted by The Blue Lady.

The Seelbach Hotel was also known as a hangout of Al Capone and featured in the F. Scott Fitzgerald book “The Great Gatsby” as the site of Tom and Daisy Buchanan’s wedding. (That ill-fated fictional couple. Daisy ran over a woman and killed her, then the woman’s husband shot and killed Gatsby and I believe committed suicide in the novel).

The money for this dreadful venture of running around the country chasing ghosts was raised on a crowdfunding website called Indiegogo. It was probably through the site that Amanda found out about this fellow, just a wild guess.

Indiegogo says “Anyone Anywhere Can Raise Money on Indiegogo” and “Create a Campaign” and “Crowdfunding for what matters to you” on Indiegogo.

Or maybe Sutherland followed Knox on Facebook or contacted her after he saw her H.O.T. video, who knows? And there is Madison Paxton right in the middle of them literally in the photo.

Sarah Lawrence College sponsors an international program in Florence, Italy as well as at Wadham College, Oxford and Reid Hall, Paris; also one with Havana, Cuba. Maybe Knox is interested in going abroad to study again to Cuba and island hopping from there to South America.

If Mr. Sutherland or anyone is interested, please google http://www.gotquestions.org/paranormal-activity.html

or google questions such as What does the Bible say about ghosts/hauntings?

Posted by Hopeful on 10/02/14 at 10:01 PM | #

Yes, I agree Hopeful. It is very dangerous - if only to the Self - to encourage one’s subconscious to spill itself in this way, without sufficient understanding, or self-moderation and self-control. If drugs are used to ‘enhance’ the experience, the outlook is extremely bleak and dark.
some things can not be recovered from.

It may be an extremely misguided and illusionistic attempt to ‘work through’ the previous trauma. When there has been trauma, there is inevitable re-living, re-experiencing of that trauma. It is vital that very skilled ( and firm) therapeutic help guides through this re-living.
The whole affair illustrates why justice is a necessity of the highest order, and why society needs to be protected from people who have committed violent and dangerous acts, - especially where the personalities exhibit instability.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/03/14 at 07:59 AM | #

My error: Colin Sutherland was Sarah Lawrence College class of ‘09 and has graduated. He is in a band called The Johnny Pumps which has several Youtube music videos out. The band members look like typical modern young Americans trying to break out in the music industry. Genre: Slag rock, punk rock. A former band member named Fred who takes pix of his cat for Facebook, had a French band called “Madame Kay”. Sutherland is a handsome young man and the band members are all normal young guys and I wish them well.

Their music is not my taste but it seems rather harmless and some of their Facebook entries are quite funny and cute, very creative. On the down side there is the usual adoration of alcohol and an effort to shock, and coarse language but that’s mostly par for the course with rock musicians.

It is Sutherland’s search into the hauntings that is so distressing IMO, and gives rise to the question of why Knox is attracted to men like this. He needs to drop her like a hot potato and get back to his music talent and flee the evil haunting obsession for his own safety.

Posted by Hopeful on 10/03/14 at 10:40 AM | #

@Hopeful

“This poor fellow Knox has her claws into now…”

Absolutely, she seems to feed on “callow youth”, and they probably find in her their own unacknowledged feelings of being a “victim”.

It’s way past time these stupid delinquents actually faced “the problem” (for them) of growing up, for crying out loud. How old is Knox now, 27? It’s really beyond pathetic.

In the meantime I would say Colin Sutherland desperately needs a friend, therapist or mentor to help him integrate his own feelings of being a victim and so lead him away from a lunatic infatuation.

Posted by Odysseus on 10/03/14 at 12:03 PM | #

Absolutely, Odysseus, I hope one appears for him.
It’s possible he -or others- are attracted through sympathy - just being a nice guy- maybe mixed with curiousity.
Creative musicians are often intrigued by the subconscious ‘vibrations’ as well as the spiritual side of life - but exploring this does contain serious risks and dangers.

After all, we do not know what happens at death, or whether or in what form the soul survives. No-one does, whatever they say. Most certainly it is not something to play with.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/03/14 at 12:42 PM | #

@SeekingUnderstanding

Agreed. Being seen as “a nice guy” probably does loom large, that often seems the case with self-conscious musicians and performers - typically confusing image with essence.

Posted by Odysseus on 10/03/14 at 02:09 PM | #

@Odysseus
Indeed…it is a common insecurity among the artistic.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/03/14 at 03:52 PM | #

If these fellers (AK & her newest moron) are trying to pull something in the woods (they all seem to have some sick fixation on the beginning of November), I hope that the next video I look at on YouTube will be kind of grainy, filmed by the lone survivor of the ghost-hunt-gone-wrong, and that lone survivor will not be Knox.

For some people doing kinky spirit communications, astral projections and erotic asphyxiations in the company of a murderer around Halloween time may be the Ultimate American Experience, and for once I hope these idiots are going to find what they’re looking for.

I would encourage them to use all the paraphernalia they need, and push the “experience” to the max - regular people around them will have to be vigilant, though, and remember their American right to use guns to defend themselves.

I don’t mean to be cynical, but this is actually wonderful news; obviously, I have very little patience left.

Posted by Bjorn on 10/03/14 at 04:00 PM | #


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