Appeal Session #2: Witness Luciano Aviello And Knife Test Arrangement Main Biz In Court

Comments

My first post. Thanks for creating this website for people who aren’t swayed by the spin on the case. I admit at first I thought maybe they were targeting Knox for prosecution and she was innocent.

Alas, once I did my own research I realized the evidence, narrative were quite compelling. Just try telling the posters on CNN that its a losing battle. Numerous times I had my posts in the comment section removed or reported.

Anyone else think if it starts to look real bad for Solecito he will throw Amanda under the bus in return for a shorter stay in prison?

Aviello has had almost no source of income throughout his adult life, his bed & board were courtesy of the Italian taxpaper.

Wait to see if he now has his very expensive sex change operation. Follow the money trail. His brother is now dead, by the way.

Hi Kmcvick, welcome.

I for one live in hope that RS does just that, it’ll make it all very interesting - and that way he’ll show just how “Honour Bound” he really is!

Yes, ..probably this was Papa Sollecito’s advice in the beginning? What a shame he didn’t follow it. Telling the truth…always a good idea.

@ Kmcvick :

“Anyone else think if it starts to look real bad for Solecito he will throw Amanda under the bus in return for a shorter stay in prison?”

Hello and Welcome !

In response to your question, Yes, I think Sollecito is a “loose cannon” and is going to eventually break. 

He is not going to go down alone ... so it will be good-bye to his so-called “Honor Bound.”

dott major Andrea Berti
http://www.ssfrebaudengo.it/jupgrade/index.php/alta-formazione/crimelab/criminologia?showall=&start=3

dott, then captain, Andrea Berti
http://www.siapec.it/molecolare/corso_it/docenti.htm

dott, then (2006) lieutenant, Filippo Barni at page 9
http://www.difesa.it/SGD-DNA/GiornaleUfficiale/2007/Documents/80379_Pdf3.pdf

… compared …

then Lt. Filippo Barni score 96.21
http://www.difesa.it/SGD-DNA/GiornaleUfficiale/2007/Documents/80379_Pdf3.pdf

(ex) Lt. Vanessa Sollecito score 9.59
http://www.difesa.it/SGD-DNA/GiornaleUfficiale/2007/Documents/44507_N25PDF.pdf

Thanks ncountryside

Yes part of the same team that was much in the news in 2010 when the body of 16 year old English girl Elisa Claps missing 17 years was found hidden in a church.

I will tell you what Aviello looks like. To me he looks exactly one of my Befana dolls on a broomstick. The feast of the Befana is 6th January each year.

He was wearing womens’ clothes a blouse under a jacket and makeup, dangle earrings and black rimmed glasses and white hair up in a bun.

We believe he wants to be called Lucia.

Coming to think of it, if everybody thinks rationally and acts in their own best interests, justice will be delivered.

Yes, I am telling that it is in the best interests of the two “kids” to tell the truth and face the consequences like a grown up adult. I know it needs courage but only for a short time. I also know that violence begins when you are scared and feel down and hopeless.

Showing protection as paternal or maternal love and affection, howsoever genuine it may be, delays the whole process because truth has a nasty way of coming out when you least expect it.

Quick justice is often faulty. But we can wait.

I am dissapointed by the Aviello testimony,  and I am sure the prosecutor,  too.

I hoped he would have blown up the pot. (I don’t know if my english is correct).

Wow this is so strange.  I’m dying to see a photo of this character.

Well said chami

I think both AK and RS are going to freak out if the new DNA test shows MK on the knife.  Much back-peddling, discussions with lawyers.

“I am dissapointed by the Aviello testimony, and I am sure the prosecutor, too. I hoped he would have blown up the pot.”

I agree.  Very disappointing.  Court quite a non-event and why have they cut so many dates out?  Will it be a very short appeal then?

It’s like : think up the most unverifiable story….

What are the chances that these two will be found not guilty?

Also if found guilty how likely is it AK will go on the run to a country to does not extradite, then what?

How when facing a murder charge has RS been allowed to travel freely all over the world, what are the chances of him doing a runner also?

I do not believe he will ever turn against her in my opinion, he has had the opportunity many times but to date has never done so. He knows the deal, that is why he is not in Italy now,

I do not think he will return there any time soon! Regardless of the outcome..

@distemper

“What are the chances that these two will be found not guilty?”

Judging by the severe truncation of court dates for this case (just announced) it seems that they want, or expect, to wrap it all up pretty quickly. That must bode well for the prosecution. The defence really haven’t got anything new it seems.

On the other hand I could be totally misreading the court and I can’t pretend I’m usually any good at guessing these outcomes…

“What are the chances that these two will be found not guilty?”

Good question but cannot give a good answer.

So far the defense for the two appear to have very little in their pocket (or hat) in way of support of their clients. As reported, the judges are really “no-nonsense”- talk less but convey a lot. Unlike common Italians, who talk a lot but convey very little!

The strongest point I noted is that they are going to do everything by the book. Meticulously.

They are not too worried about the DNA or TMB. They are classical judges and will convict on the basis of a host of circumstantial evidences. There is no escape from the circumstantial evidences that is sufficient to be considered “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

But you cannot be ever sure. There are so many ponderables that can happen. But nothing that can throw out the other evidences. Then the term may be reduced.

One thing to remember that we have not seen all the evidences. It is the small details that matter. So, I do not really know…

But I have faith. In people and in Justice. And the goodness that is present in all of us.

The last gift from the Pandora’s box: the hope.

I am really hoping for a positive outcome but I keep thinking of the appeal and how we felt there was no way they would/could possibly be released and then they were ....

@chami

Well said indeed.“they are classical judges and will convict on the basis of a host of circumstantial evidences.”

They have now scheduled only 3 court days…  certainly the defence have nothing to contradict the evidence. And as it stands there is more than reasonable doubt.

Will Sollecito throw himself at the mercy of the court and attempt a plea bargain? Yes…it is his only option and it seems that is what his father may be advising as well.

Let’s see.

Hi Matteo and others feeling a bit down at the outcome. Remember this also is a 3-act play. In Justice Italian Style it is never over until it’s over.

The prosecution knows that today Aviello guaranteed that the pressure on him at his own trial will be doubled, because he has just repeated testimony that already had him being tried for perjury.

The money trail will be testified to by the cellmates of Aviello back in his Turin prison. (Well, unless all their brothers have mysteriously died also.)

*********

Please see Update #6 newly added to the main post. It seems that the prosecution may actually have made a huge gain today.

Hi distemper
As to Knox and Sollecito hoofing it to another country. That might happen but if so their money will run out just like every other convicted felon who has fled. Sooner or later they will have to face the fact that this is a small world. Knox in particular does not have the backing of any money to speak of since her lawyers have it all.

As to both of them continually giving interviews and slandering Italy in general and the Italian law in particular. They are obviously living in a dream world of their own making which they always have done. That is their entire modus operandi of both their useless lives. After all to me at least these two are just the dregs of human existance. Bottom feeders just like their families
Dr Sollecito not-with-standing

It is my belief that even now they do not recognize that they are guilty. So we will wait once more for the DNA results. I am sure that Bordogni will try to bribe the results just as she did with Avielo.

Finally sorry about this post since this computer is in the local coffee shop with a screen that you need braile in order to read. Anyway keep up the good work.

As to a not guilty verdict. That does not matter since to us and the vast majority of humanity they are and will always remain guilty of the rape torture and murder of Meredith Kercher

So as there are only 3 days of hearings left does this mean at the end of this whether they are found guilty or not, that is the end of it? Or is this just a precursor to the final stage of appeal? 5 days for an appeal hearing doesn’t seem very long, or is this a standard length of time?

Hi Distemper

Five days is above the average length for appeals in the US and UK. Italian appeals are actually meant to be quite similar.

Remember, in US and UK courts, almost all the heavy lifting of the jury takes place in the court and the jury room. So their work is squeezed into those five days or whatever.

Italian juries in contrast take WEEKS. They will have already read not only Massei but court transcripts and police interviews and watch video. And the lead judges will have to take weeks to write a sentencing report to which they put their own names to. 

That the Florence defenses have realised they have approximately zero to complain about in the outcome of the 2009 trial is clear from their submission for this appeal, which is huge - but ludicrously off the point, taking issue with Cassation.

Cassation?!!! The Massei court is the one they are meant to be differing with. If they wanted an appeal of more than 5 days, the way was open for relevant arguments.

Aviello has not yet undergone reassignment surgery.  I would have guessed that 30balls would have reneged on her offer to foot the bill, after being betrayed by her purchased witness? Does Aviello yet maintain that his brother’s victim came to the door in a dressing gown? And this missing brother, when and where did his corpse turn up, and do we know that he ever actually existed?

Ah, mimi, you have such a suspicious mind.

I like it.

I’m confused!
I thought Aviello was paid to blame guilt on his brother, why does he repeat this bullshit in court today?

@Terry,

Maybe he repeated the original (fabricated) story because in his own perjury trial he’s going to retract his retraction (and accusations against Bonjourno/sp? etc.).  I don’t know what kind of possible defense a liar, killer, and generally disturbed person like Aviello could conjure in his perjury trial.  Rational thinking is not his strong suit, just like AK & RS.  Maybe they’ll all write a book together - “How to murder, lie, and live without remorse.”

@all4justice

Thank you for your very quick response!
I know exactly what my mom would say to this (she’s from Sicily): “They paid him again!” 😊

LOL Perfect!  She’s a very wise woman.  :]

Pete, I’m mailing you the only photo I can find of Aviello.

Many thanks Tiziano, we had sued that teenage onein2010, see if in scanning newspaper and video reprts from yesterday you can spot anything newer? Pete

Interesting about your mom Terry. (Anyone else?)

You surely know that in the first millennium southern Italy was a lot rainier than it is now and there was thriving agriculture and the world’s most important trade which created immense wealth and the signs of that are still there.

I’ve had to criss-cross Italy north of about the Amalfi coast for years most often for work but it frustrates me not to have ever done the deep south. We now have 34 sets of videos from all over Italy (some are among the better “place” YouTubes in the world, made with great love) in Meredith’s Perugia.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C312/

Scroll down to the Sicily ones (#23) they are passionate and haunting. Among the very best. I cant get the music out of my head. By the way, Giulia Bongiorno is from Sicily - Palermo, where a group wanted her to run for mayor.

On the way home from Florence i was travelling with an american couple who are doing a short trip in italy on their own.

They wanted to know where I am from and i told them i am an australian expat living in italy, studying culture and going to as many events and concerts and art exhibitions opera etc as poss.,

Then i said I am returning from the Amanda Knox Appeal in Florence, and then it started. What do you think they asked? I said, well, we believe that they are guilty.

Well, it was all downhill after that, as these people from Kentucky seem to believe everything they see on CNN. No question.

They said Amanda will probably be found guilty because the Italians are very embarrassed as they have made a mess of the whole thing.  Then they asked me to explain why the 1st Appeal was annulled.

It is very embarrassing trying to explain how the senior criminal judge was pulled from the case and replaced with Hellman and Zanetti who failed to follow through on a lot of evidence and the Supreme Court overturned the entire trial except for the calunnia.

The PR campaign has been very successful in misreporting the facts of the case.

I said Amanda knew the mode of death before the autopsy had been performed. She had knowledge of the injuries and the woman interjected yes because she was there when the door was opened to Meredith’s bedroom.

No i said, witnesses reported that they were far from the room as it was being forced open, and then of course it was immediately sealed and everyone ordered out of the house.

In the end i moved to the restaurant car.

@Mason2

It is mostly impossible to convince someone who has already formed a critical opinion. Believe me, I am full time teacher!

The tell-tale signal was the scream. She was the first to mention that, if I understand correctly. Also, the body was covered with a quilt which was not removed much, much later.

The H-Z team, from the beginning, was showing a bias that was not healthy. They were put there for some reason. The specific reason will also come out, but will take time. The tell-tale statement here is “the real truth could be different”.

Traveling from Rome to Trieste, I was excitedly arguing about women and politics with a person from Naples, and I had to change my coach and in a hurry I forgot my glasses. I could not locate the coach again and I had to get another pair of glasses urgently.

I hope you enjoyed the dinner. Once I told a waitress that I do not like pasta, and the reaction was, you know, if looks could kill…

Thanks for the nice reporting.

@Mason2

I had a similar experience this summer with relatives of a staff member who visited my bookshop. They were a friendly intelligent couple from Virginia and, like me, incurably 1960s anti-establishment types. They were both amazed I could believe AK was in any sense guilty. I didn’t pursue it - there was no point. The media bias has been phenomenal, especially in the US.

It will be a wonderful thing when justice is eventually delivered. I will personally offer to go round serving up humble pie to the media while helpfully wiping egg from faces.

Basing one’s opinions on what’s reported in the media is pathetic. I suppose people do it because (a) it’s easier, no further research needed and “why would the media not report it as it is?” (answer: because they’ve based their reportage on a press release they’ve just downloaded from an interested party) or (b) they think it’s as important, if not more important, not to be “out on a limb” ( i.e.  alone,  horror of horrors) from the perceived “semi-official” line as mediated by the media than it is to reach their own conclusions as to the truth.

Hello Big Brother at Brave New World, goodbye individuation. In the case of my friends from Virginia I think (a) must apply since they certainly weren’t the type that feared differing from the consensual view in the past.

Take note. New Twitter account on behalf of Amanda Knox ‘guiding’ journalists:  Amanda Knox News ‏@AmandaKnox_gb 1 Oct  

Guide to journalists and lawyers reporting on the case, past and present, Under construction

http://amanda-knox.wikispaces.com/Guide+to+journalists+and+lawyers …

I was not at all surprised to read of Mason2’s difficult encounter with some Americans on the train.  Many have been seduced by the wrongful PR Campaign.

For that reason I do think there will be a battle re extradition - unless she scoots it out of the USA…....

Thanks Mason2 andPQ.

Do you know there will be a double matinee on Nov 6th, starring Amanda and the blogger who pines for her..Frank Sfarzo. Two absurd shows in two separate courtrooms. Ha

mason2..if you are there on the 6th, please look at the docket for Franks info…thx

@Peter

Interesting, I didn’t know that the south of Italy was wealthy once. My parents always told me that everyone was very poor in their childhood.

My mom had an aunt in America that regulary sent her some stuff like school bags, and my mom got beat up by other kids in school because they were jealous. She met my dad, and they decided to go to Germany, because there was no work in Sicily. We still have an apartment there, so we can travel there an visit the family.

We saw the Hellman Verdict live on my laptop in 2011, and I was shocked by it. But my mom was very calm and as she was walking to the kitchen to get a glass of milk she said “They paid him”. She always says “bagarre e sorridere”, wich means “pay and laugh”. And it makes me sick that a lot of American say that the people outside the courthouse cheered and have been happy about the verdict.

We all know that they screamed “shame, shame”. They can not be further from the truth.

It would be great if you, or someone else can give me a youtube-link for the videos. I don’t know why, but I have no access to them on your side. Maybe my browser blocked them.

Greeting from Germany

The mafia playbook angles are going to emerge more and more. Thundering posted one just above on yet another of the many “anonymous” anti-truth sites we know are created by Chris Mellas and Bruce Fischer.

http://amanda-knox.wikispaces.com/Guide+to+journalists+and+lawyers

Intimidation of objective reporters as attempted there is a major mafia tactic, and Italian law has powers to act against it.

The three listed there as pro “Innocence” (Dempsey, Bremner and Burleigh) are all paid PR hacks.

Many of those taken in by the PR will reverse their opinion when the media finally starts reporting the truth en masse.

There will always be those who stay with the cult, regardless of the outcome, for example, give Michelle Moore a jar of magic beans and she’ll spend the rest of her days trying to convince others that the beans are real….magic beans I tell thee Steve, magic beans.

Hi Terry

I added “trade” which was the busiest in the world to why southern Italy grew so rich.

Ther YouTubes originate from Italian servers. Sounds like a firewall problem somewhere near you. See if these on Sicily work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n92zSM8NQ0k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kScYGRf6nZY

Pete, re photos of Aviello, no luck.  I am wondering whether this is because he is a former police “assistant”, and that part of his protection has involved keeping him “image free’.
He was reported as requesting no cameras on him in his appearance the other day.  Although he was then reported to have asked for a camera just for himself.  Weird!

A more balanced article about the trial, at last.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/30/us-italy-knox-idUSBRE98S0HN20130930

Some video clips from the first part of the Florence trial which might interest some readers, as it did me.  No photo / image of Aviello though.

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/europe/transgender-ex-mobster-tells-court-her-brother-killed-meredith-kercher-not-amanda-knox-raffaele-sollecito/story-fnh81p7g-1226733273531

I understand they are considering re-issuing this number as “Raffaele’s Lament”: http://goo.gl/PVzjsU.
Sorry to be flippant - everyone needs a break!

Excuse me everyone. I don’t want to pour cold water on this but I remember full well how optimistic we all were at the orginal trial and how (at least to the vast majority of us) a guilty verdict was all but certain.

Towards that end however I have no doubt that Bongiorno and company will try anything, even anything underhanded to the point of criminality to get a not guilty verdict.

I remember Peter pointing out at the time that Bongiorno in particular is very ambitious and wants to be more involved in Italian parliamentary affairs. so a not guilty verdict would go a long way to cementing her entrance into Italian politics.

The only way to stop this is to dig deeper and point out the vast discrepancies in the defense.

As to the American public. Well PT Barnham was right when he said “There’s one born any minute.”
The Americian public will take anything on face value without bothering to check the fact for themselves. something that has made commercialism the success that it is, not just in the USA of course but everywhere. Face it people are just lazy and so many of them don’t care.

As to my being overly cautious about the evntual outcome, well blame it on my paranoid personality.

Well said, Grahame Rhodes.

My thoughts exactly Grahame, like I said I am really hoping for a positive outcome but as Benjamin Franklin said, nothing is certain except death and taxes!

@Grahame Rhodes

All PR campaign is basically selling an Eskimo a refrigerator. They are good at the business and we all appreciate that. It is how you package the stuff and deliver with a smile.

Does it really matter to the judges? Perhaps yes but far less than the man in the street. Have the juries (or the lay judges) already made up their mind? Perhaps no.

There is nothing special about the US: this is common for the whole world and all governments try to keep a happy relation with the media because the media is the face people see every morning and every night.

The PR has spread the tentacles so well that you can never fix the blame on one person. It is now a collective affair. Nobody is responsible, or, which is the same thing, all are collectively responsible. Just like the mafia.

I think the years will be reduced but it is not predictable. The judges are orthodox and will strictly go by the book.

Let us wait and see and keep our faith in the system.

After reading Galati’s appeal, I had no doubts whatsoever that the Supreme Court would annul the acquittals and order a new appeal. I have no concerns or fears that the new judges and jury won’t convict Knox and Sollecitio.

thank you everyone. LetÅ› keep out fingers crossed

sorry Iḿ back in the coffee shop with the smallest lap top ever made

@ The Machine - 3:03 PM, I’m with you.

“The first testing of the knife will start at 2:00 pm on 10 October (Thursday, 8:00 am, US Eastern Time) at the headquarters lab of the Carabinieri in Rome, a lab with an excellent reputation separate from that of the Scientific Police which has not been a part of the case before.”

“If the scientific officers find nothing that can be tested they are to inform the court immediately. November 6 and 7 were assigned to discussion of the knife but November 7 has been removed from the court’s calendar.”

“inform the Court immediately” When will We know if they find nothing testable?

Roll on November 6!

Hi Cardiol,

According to Professor Torricelli, there were 120 pictograms of DNA. That’s enough for two separate tests.

Thanks Machine.

Breath-Bated on Whose DNA!

I believe the remaining DNA belongs to Meredith because the knife was used to stab her. Knox and Sollecito and the defence teams will be dreading the results of the tests.

So QED-Day is the day after Guy Fawkes’s.

Now that the appeal has started I am hoping that some points of interest which do not seem to have attracted much focus previously may be highlighted by the prosecution.

1) Interviewed on 8th November 2007 Sollecito stated on record to Judge Claudia Matteini that on the morning of 2nd November on his arrival at the house he had gone to Meredith’s door and ” I looked through the keyhole but could only see her bag and the open wardrobe door”.

Looking at the crime scene photos of the door and room layout it would be possible to see the bag but impossible to see the open wardrobe as the area of vision through that dimension of door and keyhole is very narrow and offers vision of only approximately 18 inches either side. The wardrobe was 4 feet to the right hand side of the bag so the wardrobe is invisible to the naked eye looking through the keyhole.

Only if you knew how the room had been left before the door had been closed would you know the wardrobe door was open. You would definitely see the bag as it was in direct vision line through the keyhole but also in direct vision was a bloodied towel and small blood stains near the bag why did these not seem to concern him on the morning of the 2nd November

2) The next area which seems odd is the bloodied foot prints leaving Meredith’s room and the house which seem to be clearly made by Rudy and all are pointing in a pace movement towards the exit of the house. My question is why are his bloodied footprints not seen standing directly by the door as he used the keys to lock it. And if you take the time to lock Meredith’s door why then exit the house but leave the main door “wide open” as AK stated when she arrived the following morning.

@kmcinern40
Very good detailed and precise points. Any more similar? The more the better.

@Peter

The youtube links work fine, thank you very much!
Yeah, seems like my firewall or my browser blocks them. Have to look it up as I have the time.

Greetings,
Terry

@kmcinern40

I’ve seen a video (maybe it was on TJMK)where a professor and his studends reenactet the different scenarios about the locked door. The result was, that based on the footprints, it can’t be Rudy who locked the door.
And as far as I know he left bloody traces on the
doorhandle from inside the room, but not outside.

James Raper recently put up a great post on the blood on the doors.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/how_the_clean-up_and_the_locked_door_contribute/

@kmcinern40

“....it would be….impossible to see the open wardrobe ....the wardrobe is invisible to the naked eye looking through the keyhole….Only if you knew how the room had been left before the door had been closed would you know the wardrobe door was open.”

Impressive analysis - hope the prosecution uses it.

What about footprints inside the room, there must have been prints in there as well, surely?

Where next:

Or to next entry Dr Mignini Pushes Back Against His Demonizers Trying To Ascribe Non-Existant “Satanic Theory”

Or to previous entry How Did The Knox-Mellases Engineer Their PR And Legal Shortfall? David Marriott Analysed