Guede’s Grounds For Appeal Sound None Too Convincing

Comments

Good comments as usual by Kevin and Arnold on the appeal on an earlier thread, which we’d like to repeat with thanks here:

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Guede has lodged his appeal, he is sticking to his story, which all but names AK and RS as the killers following a row between Meredith and Knox over missing money.

I think this means that AK and RS will have to testify now to rebutt this? And be subject to cross examination, rather than just make ad hoc statements.

Not sure whether Guede has to testify, his lawyer seems to be arguing that Micheli drew the wrong conclusion about the statements he has already made.

Anyway, looks like we are moving closer to getting the truth?

Posted by Kevin on 03/09 at 06:17 PM | #

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I see that the appeal is likely to be heard after the summer recess. Meanwhile Guede’s lawyers will monitor the RS/AK trial for information useful to the appeal. They say that they may well call new witnesses.

The most shocking thing to me is his lawyer saying that Guede has ONLY to be ashamed of not calling for help before fleeing.

Even if his story were 100% true, which is extremely doubtful, then he is still guilty of allowing Meredith to bleed to death, over a period of 2 hours… and instead he went nightclubbing.

For me, this admitted crime is enough to deserve a life sentence, never mind the one he was convicted of.

Posted by Kevin on 03/10 at 02:58 AM | #

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Row over money - how does he know? The following is the statement by Guede’s lawyers as to his involvement:

“...Guede told the court that he had ‘eaten a dodgy kebab’ and was in the bathroom listening to his iPod when Meredith was killed.  He said he emerged to find her dying in a pool of blood. 

Guede told the court he struggled with a man who resembled Sollecito and that he thought a woman who looked like Knox was at the door of the house waiting.”

If this is the case, how does he know that AK and Meredith were arguing over money?  He would have been in the bathroom when others showed up, had the argument, and stabbed her.

Posted by Arnold_Layne on 03/10 at 10:32 AM | #

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Arnold

In Micheli’s report, Guede’s version (which Micheli doesn’t believe) has Meredith telling him about the missing money and laying the blame on ‘druggy Amanda’.

From the bathroom, he claims he heard others arrive and Meredith saying ‘We’ve got to talk’

Posted by Kevin on 03/10 at 02:21 PM | #

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Above reposted for Kevin and Arnold.

Some time before the crime, Rudy Guede had had his mobile phone confiscated - for drug-dealing.

It’s been conjectured for a long time now that Rudy Guede may have provided some dangerous hard drugs on the night in question.

Meth seems the front-runner in people’s guesses on this.

Perhaps absent such drugs then there might have been no crime. At least not a murder. Meredith might now still be alive.

Kinda suggests why Guede ain’t exactly keen to speak up.

By the way, we’re told he will HAVE to testify if the prosecution want it that way. Either that, or he will be in contempt of court.

Guede’s testimony in court will be key. And if it has to be forced out of him, then so be it. The only way to assess whether any of the suspects is telling the truth about anything is to hear/see them tell their story in public.

I imagine Guede’s lawyers would advise him to testify if called rather than risk aggravating his situation by refusing.

If Guede was to get an appeal, what part of leaving Meredith to bleed to death is innocence? What kind of sentence would he get for that? All that I’ve heard about Guede’s statements were thrown out or not believed by the judge, what ones do they believe he told the truth about? If he is held in contempt, what would they add to his 30 year term?
I don’t know alot about drugs but isn’t meth smoked, it would be easier to slip ‘Ex’ or GHB into a drink. Sorry for all the questions but if you know any of them please let me know, thanks.

Peter,

Drugs

I’ve always thought of cannabis making peace loving hippies even more docile, but it seems that the stuff sold these days is several times stronger and does not contain one of two chemicals that previously counteracted each other to prevent aggressive behaviour.

An example is a case in Manchester UK this week where ‘As Stephanie slept Jones battered her over the head, bound her hands and raped her before finally killing her by bludgeoning her repeatedly with the paving slab’. We also have parents reporting violent behaviour in kids after smoking the stuff and not being believed because we all assume cannabis is the ‘hippie drug’.

I think that we are still to hear from the investigator who is scheduled to testify on drug use by RS and AK .... should be interesting?.

Motive

Guede’s lawyer makes a greal deal out of motive or lack of motive.

Vincent Bulgiosi says that, contary to what we ‘lay’ people think, there is no need to prove any motive, just that the defendant, bejond reasonable doubt, committed the crime. He says he has sent many defendants to death row without fully understanding their motive.

In many cases the defendant himself cannot explain his motive or motives. In a case like ths, where more than one person was involved in the frenzied attack, it is even more difficult to explain.

The long, rambling, inconsistant (and I think guilt ridden) statements given by all three defendants seem to reveal them each trying to explain to themselves why they did it.

In emails and letters, RS and RG also seem to list every friend they ever had since birth and then try to explain why ‘it wasn’t really me’.

Knox, almost seems to be asking the police to explain it all to her.

Hi Kevin

We’ve had a large number of cannabis smokers commenting on this case over the past months.  All of them, without exception, do not believe the stories spun by AK & RS about why they have memory loss etc.  I’ve never met a violent stoner, even on the higher strength stuff.  You can’t be bothered, much less bothered on the strong stuff.  Ask yourself a question, why doesn’t Amsterdam have the world’s highest murder rate if weed makes you violent? The city could not be lower on the scale, it does have lots of very high happy hungry people ambling about it’s sights with a large contingent of British drunks starting fights.  Re: the story in Manchester, media hype mate, sorry.  I’ll bet quids to squids that there was also a couple of litres of wicked strength White Lightening (cheap nasty cider for those non-Uk readers) downed with that joint before the assault. 

Personally, I agree with Pete.  It was Meth or cocaine based, if the murder was drug related, which I also doubt.  I still think this was a row gone very badly wrong with a teeny bit of me (thanks to a PMF debate or two!) thinking it’s three sicko’s looking for kicks. Still think the former but fully prepared to be wrong :D

Daisy,

Drugs

I’m no expert on this, and I don’t know what RS was putting in his pipe to smoke, however, these stories of the effects of ‘skunk’ do seem to be widespread ... here’s another from London:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23391305-details/Boy+on+skunk+cannabis+butchered+a+grandmother/article.do

Could the explaination be that people (including RS and AK ) are willing to admit that they smoked cannabis, but are less willing to mention harder drugs because that makes them look more guilty?

Anyway, we’ll probably learn more from the hearings tomorrow and Saturday.

What we have here is rational people trying to answer the question, “How could she/he do such a thing?”  The enormity of this crime simply defies comprehension unless it is acknowledged that the driving force is a psychopath.  More often than not, if you have to ask, “How could he do such a thing?” you are dealing with a psychopath.

Take Bernie Madoff as an in the news example.  Madoff is a Jew.  Jews are certainly extremely sensitive to the reality and implications of the holocaust.  People with a number tattooed on their arm by the Nazis are held in very,. very high regard; yet, Madoff scammed these people.  He has no understanding of their actual suffering or the devastation felt by an entire race.  Read, Snakes in Suits to see how Wall Street types of psychopaths can take advantage the average person.

Soliceto was in way, way over his head.  My heart goes out to this guy.  Think of a sock puppet with someone’s hand making it move and speak.  Amanda hung around the police station while he was being interrogated because she was controlling him.  Her arm was completely up his ass moving his arms and mouth.  He didn’t have a tiger by the tail, a tiger had him by the balls. 

Much like there is a black hole at the center of galaxies, there is a psychopath at the center of this horrible, mind numbing, tragedy.  I really don’t believe any drugs are needed to provide an explanation.  Heavy drugs have never been implicated in this tragedy.  I don’t think we should write off this crime to “drug use!”

Kevin, I think that’s exactly right, Weed is cooler/more acceptable than most drugs, Crack certainly isn’t in the eyes of most young people. The only way I can see anyone who has just smoked cannabis getting violent is if they have a pre-existing mental condition which is made worse with weed smoking.  Sadly beer has the same affect on some people, in some rare cases, food additives can do the same so it’s whatever sets you off.  Unless Knox & Sollecito can prove they suffered Schizophrenia or clinical depression prior to the murder AND their condition is one of those made worse by weed; their alibi sits up there with “The dog ate my homework, Miss” as one of the worst excuses ever.

Its too ridiculous for Guede to expect anyone to believe the dogey-kebab story.  I can’t imagine AK and RS coming in, engaging in a dispute with Meredith, then things deteriorate to her stabbing death, all the while Guede is in the bathroom.  And he was supposedly there at Meredith’s to put the move on her.

Its much easier for me to believe he saw her lying in a pool of blood when he emerged from the bathroom, and running out the door. That part is believable however stupid. But the apparent real truth of the matter is, he must have been in the room along with the others. He’s much more culpable than he admits.

Where next:

Or to next entry Trial: The Process Resumes: The Court Agenda For Friday And Saturday

Or to previous entry Patrick Lumumba Seeks Damages For His Time In The Big House