Thursday, September 05, 2013

Questions For Knox: Why So Many False Claims In Accounts Of Your Visit To The House?

Posted by James Raper

[Filomena’s shutters on approach above and below NOT half-open as they were when Knox arrived]

Additional to this post and this post on the overwhelming strength of the evidence against Sollecito and Knox.

Amanda Knox was of course lying from the start about her initial visit to the cottage to have a shower and collect a change of clothing, in the account which she gave the police when they turned up, and which she then embellished into a version of Little Red Riding Hood in her e-mail.

Here’s how we can know why. One of her most glaringly untrue claims, one not hard to fathom out and indeed I have no doubt that she had done so herself and regretted it within minutes of recounting her story to the police.

The shutters to Filomena’s window were open upon the arrival of the postal police.  Massei (page 27) -

Said window had two half-closed shutters, and the right-hand shutter (the right with respect to the person looking at it) was slightly more open”› (page 62, hearing of February 6, 2009, Battistelli’s statements).

Filomena’s window is in fact the most prominent feature of the cottage for anyone walking down the lane to it. Yet, incredibly, if we are to make sense of the rest of her account, we are required to believe that Knox did not notice the shutters .

Whether they were half open or less than half open does not matter. They were open, indicating, as a matter of common sense, that the occupant of the room might be somewhere around.

You would think that anyone (anyone but Knox apparently) apprised of this elementary scrap of information about their own home and flatmates, and then in addition finding that the front door was open and no-one was answering, would have checked the other rooms, and in particular Filomena’s, out of curiosity if not concern, wouldn’t you? Of course you would.

Discovery of the broken window would then, if not before, have been inevitable, but of course in those circumstances no one would have believed that she had then had a shower and blow dried her hair.

Of course it did occur to the police that her story was a load of nonsense, just as it did to Knox and Sollecito.

See at bottom here for the famous picture of Knox and Sollecito together outside the cottage, Knox with her left hand up to her eyes and Sollecito by her side standing with his back to the window, jaws clenched and staring blankly straight ahead.

They knew, and they must have been praying hard that the police were just as stupid as them. When they were not arrested on the spot they must have thought their prayers were answered.

[Shower? Knox with Sollecito several hours later at which point her body odour was reported as immense]


Thanks James. Good to see the photos.

The ‘shower’ story is also inconsistent with more then one report of Amanda Knox’s uncleanliness/B-O on that following day, as well as the unwashed appearance of her hair.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 09/05/13 at 03:06 PM | #

For those who don’t know it you can click on any of our images and they will blow up. Here are two of our other posts that focus on that window with more images.:

Here is Knox’s non-credible account in her book of what happened after she arrived, which has been proven incredible or false here and on PMf and in court.

On that cold, sunny Friday morning, I left Raffaele asleep in his apartment and walked home to take a shower and get my things together, thinking about our romantic weekend in the Umbrian hills. In hindsight, it seems that arriving home to find the front door open should have rattled me more. I thought, That’s strange. But it was easily explained. The old latch didn’t catch unless we used a key. Wind must have blown it open, I thought, and walked inside the house calling out, “Filomena? Laura? Meredith? Hello? Hello? Anybody?”

Nobody. The bedroom doors were closed.

I wasn’t alarmed by two pea-¬size flecks of blood in the bathroom sink that Meredith and I shared. There was another smear on the faucet. Weird. I’d gotten my ears pierced. Were they bleeding? I scratched the droplets with my fingernail. They were dry. Meredith must have nicked herself.

It wasn’t until I got out of the shower that I noticed a reddish-¬brown splotch about the size of an orange on the bathmat. More blood. Could Meredith have started her period and dripped? But then, how would it have gotten on the sink? My confusion increased. We were usually so neat. I went to my room and, while putting on a white skirt and a blue sweater, thought about what to bring along on my trip to Gubbio with Raffaele.

I went to the big bathroom to use Filomena’s blow dryer and was stashing it back against the wall when I noticed poop in the toilet. No one in the house would have left the toilet unflushed. Could there have been a stranger here? Was someone in the house when I was in the shower? I felt a lurch of panic and the prickly feeling you get when you think someone might be watching you. I quickly grabbed my purse and coat and somehow remembered the mop I said I’d bring back to Raffaele’s. I scrambled to push the key into the lock, making myself turn it before I ran up the driveway, my heart banging painfully.

By the time I was a block from home I was second-¬guessing myself. Maybe I was overreacting. Maybe there was a simple reason for the toilet being unflushed. I needed someone to say, “Amanda, you’re right to be scared. This isn’t normal.” And if it wasn’t okay, I wanted someone to tell me what to do. My skittering brain pulled up my mom’s mantra: when in doubt, call. Forgetting the nine-¬hour time difference between Perugia and Seattle, I pressed the number sequence for home. My mom did not say hello, just “Amanda, are you okay? What’s wrong?” It was in the middle of the night in Seattle, and she was worried.

Judges Micheli and Massei both disbelieved all of Knox’s claims about what happened on her first visit (if it happened at all). Here is Judge Micheli explaining his October 2008 remand of Knox to trial.


Posted by Peter Quennell on 09/05/13 at 03:32 PM | #

@James Raper

Thank you.

I’ve not seen that particular image of AK & RS before. They look totally tired and wasted, as you’d expect…

Posted by Odysseus on 09/05/13 at 03:52 PM | #

The images of the open window on approach to the house are telling.Of course anyone would have wondered about the open window..not to forget bood on the bathmat,blood on the sink Merediths closed door and the open front door. Thank you James and Peter.

Sollecito still shares the same Alice in Wonderland make believe logic. On BBC’s Hardtalk interview he says that the reason he changed his original statement that Knox was gone for a good part of that night was that he was simply confused.He was tired, the police had taken hm in early for questioning he did not clearly understand that they were asking him about their wherabouts on that “particular night”..the night of the murder.
So is he likely to continue with this make believe   nonsense?

He says also that he will not attend initial hearings, for the preliminary hearings when court schedules and guidelines are mapped out.

Will they get him on the stand ?

Will they get him and Guede up together?

One element that has me stumped is Guede’s silence. RS says “he know’s all”.They were both there.Surely Guede can slip the knot of silence that ties them all?

Also can the US authorities jail Knox up to and until legal proceedings are complete pending a possible extradition request. They are as it stands guilty of murder are they not unless they can show just cause on this new appeal hearing?

Posted by Olliebear on 09/05/13 at 05:42 PM | #

I doubt they will have Guede on the stand.

When they tried it at the 2011 appeal he wouldn’t speak.

Posted by thundering on 09/05/13 at 06:39 PM | #

Hi Olliebear

Re: Guede’s silence. That has me stumped too. Is it fear of retribution ( I think SeekingUnderstanding was alluding to this possibility in a recent post), some reward he’s expecting on release,  or something else?

Maybe “the tightening noose” will free some lips. It’s not as if they are high-minded idealistic martyrs that will sacrifice all for the cause. They are seriously disturbed and overgrown children, hanging together just as long as each of them (and their pathetic family and advisers) think it’s their best course. A single crack by one of them and it’s all over.

It’s all over anyway but it would be good to see the mayhem that would ensue from a general unravelling of all the fabrications, the predictable and reflexive family attitudes to “defend our own” come hell or high water (lest we might have to acknowledge some guilt), etc.

Ugly scenes could be coming soon (you can always hide behind the couch).

Posted by Odysseus on 09/05/13 at 06:58 PM | #

Hi Olliebear, Thundering and Odysseus

The problem is not that Guede wont speak, it’s that so far he wont tell the truth.

1) Guede spoke at his own trial and both his appeals and at the Knox-Sollecito 2011 appeal plus he wrote a key letter from jail.

He took the short form trial because he was scared that RS and AK would gang up against him at main trial as they were already showing signs of doing. Each time, he claimed Meredith invited him in and wanted to make love. This is what Judge Micheli (who sentenced him) said about that:

Note in that report that Guede owes E8.5 million to the Kerchers so I discount that he hopes to make great gains via a book.

2) Guede did offer to speak at the RS/AK trial in 2009 but the prosecutors could not offer him any deal. He did turn up but didnt speak. It didnt seem to matter at the time.

3) In prison Guede was then mysteriously attacked - something that is not meant to happen in the sex offenders wing. He did not press charges against the two, but from there on out he was even more scared. That was the first time possible Mafia fingers in the pie was raised.

4) Guede wrote an angry letter to prosecutors after Alessi said Guede had told him there were two others with him, not Knox and Sollecito. Despite the fact that Alessi was so nervous of testifying about this in court that he had to go off to be sick, Guede’s rebuttal letter was read for him at the 2011 appeal. You can read the letter here.

5) Guede did try to be contrite to the Kercher family at his first appeal in December 2010, but still stuck to the “Meredith invited me in” story We had many posts on that appeal, you can find them all by scrolling down here.

6) Guede did talk on the stand in 2011 strongly fingering RS and AK but there were prior agreements as to what he would cover, and Bongiorno could not do a full cross examination (read: fishing expedition, with more slurs). There is a video in Italian here.

Reading the tealeaves, it has always seemed to me that Guede was an accidental bystander drawn in maybe only moments before the attack by his documented lust for Knox. Plus he didnt know it would end with Meredith’s death.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 09/05/13 at 07:32 PM | #

@Peter Quennell

I also intuitively feel that Guede was drawn in.

Something about his lack of guile (though clearly afraid of what he’s got involved with) distinguishes him from the other two pretenders.

Posted by Odysseus on 09/05/13 at 08:23 PM | #

There are several tell-tale signs.

Why did AK&RS; cancel their Gubbio trip?

By the way, why does she appear tired and exhausted?

They did not do any hard work (as per their own claims) the night before and she looks terrible!

Better to take the trip to Florence now!

Posted by chami on 09/05/13 at 09:26 PM | #

The account Knox gives is incredible in the true meaning of the word.  She describes small drops of blood and then when she gets out the shower notices something like an orange? shaped stain on the bathmat.

I was watching the crimescene videos the other day, and there is a shot from the hallway looking towards the bathroom, and the bloody footprint is easily recognisable from a distance, from down the hallway.

There is no way anyone would not recognise that stain as a footprint - except Knox of course.

Then there’s Rudy’s deposit he left in the toilet.Knox contradicts herself by first saying how clean everybody is in the house but then she just leaves it as it is, she doesn’t flush it away!

It goes on and on…  It is beyond belief what Knox says

Posted by DF2K on 09/05/13 at 10:05 PM | #


‘Ludricrous’ is another good word :

“ludicrous /looˈ or lūˈdi-krÉ™s/  adjective
Ridiculous, absurd
Intended to excite, or exciting, laughter
Sportive (obsolete)
Humorous (obsolete)
ORIGIN: L lÅ«dicrus, from lÅ«dere to play”

Unfortunately, tragically, it wasn’t a game, and ‘playing’ was totally inappropriate.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 09/05/13 at 10:52 PM | #

The “discovery” sequence didn’t make any sense the first time Knox told it and it doesn’t get any better in her book.

1]  Walks down driveway to cottage and does not notice broken window.
2]  Notices front door is open and thinks the wind blew it open.
3]  Calls out for Filomena, Laura, and Meredith even though she knows only Meredith would be expected home.
4]  Discovers dried blood on the tap but does not notice any other blood.  Not the footprints in the hallway.  Not the streaks on the door jamb.  Not the bathmat print.
5]  Finishes showering and notices the bathmat print.  A strange ‘jump cut’.
6]  Changes her clothing.
7]  Goes to blow dry her hair after getting fully dressed and discovers the unflushed toilet.  Several ‘jump cuts’ in this account.
8]  Returns to Sollecito’s and phones her mother along the way.  That phone call did not happen.

All of this happens before Knox “discovers” the broken window in Filomena’s room.  At this point one would expect the ninth step to be getting into Sollecito’s car and driving to Gubbio for the day because nothing has really happened and everyone has assured her there is no cause for alarm.

But the narrative swings back to the “discovery” because of what Edda tells her in a phone call that provably did not happen.  The mind boggles.

Posted by Stilicho on 09/06/13 at 02:06 AM | #

Rudy, Rudy, Rudy.  (Said as the old quote “Judy, Judy, Judy”, by Larry Storch imitating Cary Grant, weirdly enough)

If he says there were others, but not Biff and Anita, he’s pretty damned screwed.  If he says it was Biff and Anita, he’s back to life on the outside.  This is one example of the quandary of “the truth will set you free.”  It is so confusing to me. 

I have wanted this case to square up for a long time.  Rudy knows some of what really happened; there is no doubt about that.  He has consistently said there were others.  I am always amazed and enraged at how twisted human nature can become.  I am very strongly convinced that all three are guilty.  Why Rudy continues to be silent could be attributable to a PTSD-type of trauma, else why can’t he just truthfully and willingly tell all?

All it would take is the telling of truth, to honor Meredith’s memory, to stop the circus and ease the pain of so many involved.  It is angering and sorrowful.  Not long now, I hope.  Strength to the Kerchers again and again.

Also, remind me not to hold my breath.

Posted by zinnia on 09/06/13 at 02:34 AM | #


Off topic perhaps, I know, but can anybody tell me what is the position concerning the forthcoming trials - Sollecito and Sfarzo. Are these open to the public? Or do you have to be a journalist or have some affiliation to attend? I might be in Tuscany later this year and was wondering what the set up was, if anyone can just drop in, especially the Sfarzo hearing.

Posted by John Forbes on 09/06/13 at 03:40 AM | #

Hi John

Godd to hear you will be there. The timing of the Sollecito book trial has not been set (we await the prosecution report) but the Sforza contempt of court trial will be ongoing and open. I can get more details if it would help. Your Italian is okay? We could use some reports.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 09/06/13 at 04:40 AM | #

Hi Stilicho

Riiiiight. The call that wasnt. At least not then.

The first call to Seattle recorded was several hours later, it lasted 88 seconds, it was from inside the house, it finished at 10 minutes to 1:00, and Edda may have tartly said only “call the police”. They were already there.

Remarkable how very very different is the Knox book. See the quote above. Questions in a Florence appeal court and book-trial court await unless it is really too much bother to show up.

Not that everyone in the trial court told the truth about that call either. Edda testified that Amanda said this… and this… and this… and this… and this…

The prosecution asked dryly if all of that was said in an 88 second call…  Flustered, Edda testified that it was.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 09/06/13 at 04:52 AM | #


My Italian is good - family is from Tuscany. The Kercher trial will be long and protracted, and I would imagine so well attended that you don’t get in unless you’re a journalist, but that might not be the case with the Sfarzo trial. Have you any idea how long it would last - days/weeks and are you sure it would be open to the public ?

Posted by John Forbes on 09/06/13 at 05:09 AM | #

Thanks James. Excellent.

TrueJustice is always good with the truth bombs.

Posted by Bettina on 09/06/13 at 06:38 AM | #

From the second comment above:

“It wasn’t until I got out of the shower that I noticed a reddish-¬brown splotch about the size of an orange on the bathmat. More blood.”

It was hardly a “splotch” - it was a bloody footprint of the most obvious sort. The one clearly showing the toes and the main part of the foot.

Posted by TruthWillOut on 09/06/13 at 09:31 AM | #

Re Rudy telling the truth of that night - seriously, would anyone believe him? After all this time?

And given the tentacles of the Mafia reaching into every level of Italian life, and I’ve no doubt that RS’s father, if not his sister, has connections, Rudy must be terrified for his own life.

Posted by TruthWillOut on 09/06/13 at 10:20 AM | #

That is also my over-riding impression when I see Rudy’s photo now…that he is terrified - of them, of what might happen, of what he somehow got involved with. ( I don’t imagine he’s studied psychology.)

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 09/06/13 at 10:51 AM | #


I could not agree more wholeheartedly with your comments. Particularly about getting clarity for the Kercher family. Yet RS continues to peddle childish lies in front of a TV camera. He has been in thrall to Knox for a long time. He said little or nothing throughout the trial. Certainly he was manipulated by Knox. It would seem that Guede was involved in possibly small time drug dealing for AK & RS.

The details of how all three came to meet at the cottage are unclear. I read some very perceptive analysis on the case at Miss Rerpresented blog and also Eyes for Lies. It is really distressing to think on, when you read the possible scenarios they lay out. A hazing gone to extremes.

As everyone keeps repeating, the truth is possibly the best defence. It may be true that Sollecitos family will have no qualms in threatening Guede ..they appear to believe that anything goes in protecting their son even when he has been led into a murder trio by a girl he barely knew. The Knox family are even worse.

Guede wants to appear innocent when really he is as guilty as Knox and Sollecito. He is the only one to show so far any tinge of remorse for the murder of Meredith.Surely he can be now included in the trial and protected to tell the truth. The Kercher family deserves nothing less and I hope that the court in Florence can succeed.

Posted by Olliebear on 09/06/13 at 12:34 PM | #

Hi Odyesseus,

As you say it would be good to see the whole thing unravel. In particular “the reflexive family attitudes to defend their own come hell or high water”.

Well a kind of hell and high water is approaching them now. Is it even possible that some one of the Knoxes would own up to knowing that AK is guilty?

There is no uglier scene than the kind of madness and collective violence they visited. That along with the make believe alternative reality of their non existent alibi’s, their awful families and the blood money garnered from writing lies, the pr and the deplorable media coverage all contribute to the kind of indignation everyone here feels.

Let’s hope as you say that ” a single crack by one of them and it’s all over “

I feel that there was some political pressure brought to bear in the circus of the aquittal. Lets hope both Italy and the US deal fair on allowing justice to prevail.

Posted by Olliebear on 09/06/13 at 02:38 PM | #

Hi Olliebear

Agree with all you say. Re: political pressure - yes,let’s hope there are no shenanigans on that front, that really would be depressing.

Posted by Odysseus on 09/06/13 at 03:14 PM | #

Thank you, Peter.

OK, so he spoke in 2011.

I do think he has been threatened in some way and that this prevents him from speaking freely.

I agree with this:

“Reading the tealeaves, it has always seemed to me that Guede was an accidental bystander drawn in maybe only moments before the attack by his documented lust for Knox. Plus he didnt know it would end with Meredith’s death.”

Posted by thundering on 09/06/13 at 03:22 PM | #


Re: “L lÅ«dicrus, from lÅ«dere to play”

Have you read “Homo Ludens: A Study of the Play-Element in Culture” by Johan Huizinga?  Originally published in 1950 I think. Fascinating.

Posted by Odysseus on 09/06/13 at 03:27 PM | #

The Hand:

That picture at the bottom is very telling.  They look extenuated.

What grabs my attention is Amanda Knox’s HAND.

It seems to be out of proportion in the picture.

Not only does it look like it has been hard at some kind of rough manual work but it is quite chilling in its big brutal ugliness

Posted by thundering on 09/06/13 at 03:28 PM | #

AK certainly does have large hands, for her otherwise seemingly petite frame

Anyone remember this?  [image posted below]

Posted by TruthWillOut on 09/06/13 at 05:03 PM | #


Goodness, when were those images taken?

BTW Your link didn’t work for me until I shortened it as under(apparently “hot linking” is barred):

[image now see-able below]

Posted by Odysseus on 09/06/13 at 05:13 PM | #

Please see the image below.

It was the shot taken after a high profile interview promoting her book.

She was pictured going into the studios and her knuckles/hand was fine.

Post the interview, she was climbing into the car and was pictured with her knuckles on her right hand looking like she’d punched a wall.


Posted by TruthWillOut on 09/06/13 at 05:29 PM | #

Oh, bravo whoever got the image to work! Thanks

Posted by TruthWillOut on 09/06/13 at 05:57 PM | #

Hands in the AK context have come up quite often before.

There were the images of her seemingly praying (or showing how she strangled someone) by the house when being questioned by the cops.

Also there were various shots in court showing tightly clenched hands. 

Also there were the hullucinogenic hands she kept drawing in prison while on LSD (just kidding).





Posted by Peter Quennell on 09/06/13 at 06:10 PM | #

Horrible hands IMO.

Hands tell a story but I am no psychologist.

Posted by thundering on 09/06/13 at 06:47 PM | #

Most pictures/images, they seem normal sized. Every so often there is an image and they’re disproportionately large.

Posted by TruthWillOut on 09/06/13 at 07:06 PM | #

Am fairly sure AK makes an issue, in her book, of the ‘fact’ that she believes she has small hands. I’m not sure whereabouts without ploughing through again.
It’s relative. Her palms look short to me, and fingers out of proportion slightly. And yes, much is indicated psychologically,
- for example the separate 4th finger - but maybe best to keep own’s own counsel about such things, especially at this stage.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 09/06/13 at 08:07 PM | #

Agreed. At this rate we’ll be like an inverse FAO.

Posted by TruthWillOut on 09/06/13 at 09:53 PM | #

Re TWO’S 2 AK right-hand images:

The 2nd image does look as if she had injured all four of her right-hand knuckles, as in punching something like a wall.
However the marks look partly-healed.
The marks were probably present in the 1st image, but not obvious because of its different perspective.

In Pete’s Getty image, AK’s left hand shows a deformed finger-nail also c/w with physical injury.

@ SU: Your ’small hands’  memory is very close.
In “Waiting to be Heard”, page 174 [Kindle Location 2214], it reads:
“Mom held my hands in her lap and rubbed them. I knew the particular feeling of her hands – the only adult hands I’d ever come across as small as mine, but always warmer…”

Posted by Cardiol MD on 09/07/13 at 12:00 AM | #

I noticed the intensity on Raffs face (last pic). Look at his eyes.

Notice Amanda looking off to the side when cops were surrounding her.

Posted by Bettina on 09/07/13 at 01:25 AM | #

PS thanks James

Posted by Bettina on 09/07/13 at 01:28 AM | #

Thank You, James, for this post.

I do not recall seeing that photo of Knox and Raf, so Thanks for posting it here.

That photo clearly shows the two were exhausted and nervous, and no way did Knox have a “shower” that morning—she is a “mess.”

Posted by MissMarple on 09/07/13 at 03:53 AM | #

There are so many things wrong with her account in the book. Not only do they contradict her own account in the emails sent by her during the initial days, but they also defy logic completely. According to her email, she saw the closed door and thought that Meredith was sleeping. Yet, as per this account in her book, after discovering the blood and shit in the bathroom and getting freaked out, not only did she not bother checking up on Meredith, but she also locked the front door, essentially trapping Meredith in the house with some stranger (she says she thought Meredith was in her room, and she thought some stranger was in the house). Also, despite her claims of being freaked out enough to call her mom in the middle of the night, she remembered to grab a mop. What??? She had time to shower, scoot around naked, dress, grab a mop etc…and yet, she did not think of checking if Filomena was in her room to ask her if everything was ok.

Above all, despite all this freaking and calling, she was in no hurry to tell anything about it to Raffeale. She is supposed to have told him about it after breakfast.  If I thought that I had trapped my roommate with some stranger in the house, either I would be trying her number like crazy or calling the cops. I cannot believe the stupidity of people who continue to support her.

Posted by Sara on 09/07/13 at 05:22 AM | #

Re the hand - of course it is the morning after the night before and that hand tells the story.

Posted by thundering on 09/07/13 at 05:39 AM | #

You are quite right…AK’s ‘versions’ (of the truth) are utterly incomprehensible and inconsistent.
Her make-believe inventions defy the most simple logic of all normal behaviour.
Either she is highly abnormal to the point of insanity, or else she is making up a pack of lies in an attempt to cover up the most appalling crime.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 09/07/13 at 08:37 AM | #

.....Or both.

(Thanks to Odysseus, Cardiol, and TruthWillOut for feedback comments)

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 09/07/13 at 08:53 AM | #

Re Cardiol’s comment above
“However the marks look partly-healed.”

I actually thought they were healing warts when I first saw the image of the ‘damaged’ hand. However, I understood the right hand pic came after the left hand pic (so camera focus could be relevant here) and I understood they were before and after an interview where she’d stumbled over herself and the interviewer had not been as welcoming of her version as she’d found others to be. But this is from memory. Her outfit is the same in both pics however - same bag (US purse) and top.

Posted by TruthWillOut on 09/07/13 at 11:20 AM | #

I watched the Hardtalk interview last night. One thing that struck me (which may have long been obvious to others!) is that RS’s irritating “choir-boy” air of innocence could be due to a belief that he is RELATIVELY innocent, if we accept the scenario that Knox dealt the fatal blow (perhaps his part was restricted to “hazing”).

This might explain the subtle and coded attempts to minimise his part (i.e. “the evidence against her is stronger than against me”, etc) while cannily keeping up the alibi that they were both at his flat (except - naturally - she could have slipped out and committed any number of foul deeds when he was asleep). 

“Honour Bound”? I don’t think so. There’s no honour in denying one’s complicity in a murder by intimating a minor role while pretending chivalry to the young maiden (hearty cough) ringleader.

Main position: We weren’t there. Fallback position when push comes to shove: She did it, I was only in attendance.

Posted by Odysseus on 09/07/13 at 12:33 PM | #

It was after an interview she had in New York - I guess it dawned on her afterwards that it never went to good. The photo was taken as she left the hotel she was staying in.

An interviewer later did ask her about the marks that had appeared overnight on her knuckles and Knox replied she had been doing her martial arts training. (er.. no, not punching walls)

So, crying and wailing out loud in her hotel room so much so that guest were complaining and security banged on her door to check - and martials arts training thrown in for good measure along with at least one panic attack admitted to on national television -
never a dull moment in the quirky world of Amanda Knox!
But she hadn’t been punching the wall though, honest..

Posted by DF2K on 09/07/13 at 12:40 PM | #

I would think it because she can’t bear it.
She finds it unbearable…that she is who she is, she grew up the way she did, and has done what she has done, and this unholy mess has ensued.

We can all find it difficult to accept the truth about ourselves, at times.
But for some people…well, maybe they never can.
It is further tragedy when people cannot be helped - cannot be helped to help themselves.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 09/07/13 at 01:07 PM | #

Anyone know anything about this, and when it might go on air? :

Posted by Odysseus on 09/07/13 at 03:38 PM | #

later this month apparently - see below

Posted by Jools on


Channel 5 is to look at the Amanda Knox retrial with documentary Knox on Trial: The Key Questions.

It was a crime that shocked millions. In 2007, British student Meredith Kercher was brutally murdered in her flat in Perugia, Italy.

Almost six years later on Sept 30th the 2013 the Italian Supreme Court will begin a retrial in an attempt to once and for all determine who really did murder the British exchange student.

In 2009, Meredith’s 21-year-old American flatmate Amanda Knox, Amanda’s 23 year old Italian boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, and local drug dealer, Rudy Guede were found guilty of murder. Two years later the Italian court of appeal quashed the convictions of Knox and Sollecito. Today only Rudy Guede remains behind bars – the sole perpetrator of a heinous crime…or was he? The broadcaster will ask.

They also attempt to piece together what really happened on that fateful November night. Knox on Trial: The Key Questions looks to answer the questions on which the retrial will hinge; could Rudy have done it alone? What evidence places Amanda and Rudy at the crime scene? Who left bloody footprints in the bathroom? Was the flat window broken before or after the murder? How many people were heard fleeing the crime scene?

To help Channel 5 have brought together two of the finest minds in the Italian legal system; Fulvia Guardascione: an Italian born criminal lawyer with a case history ranging from rape and theft to armed robbery and murder who will be arguing for the prosecution. Whilst taking the case for the defence will be Alexander Guttieres, a no-nonsense Americo-Italian criminal litigator with over 30 years in court.

Their arena is a purpose built 1:1 scale reconstruction of the Villa de la Pergola, Meredith and Amanda’s Perugia home. Here they examine the evidence and contest the arguments on which the trial will turn.

They will be helped by a supporting case of CSI specialists including a glass shatter expert, a DNA expert, a sound expert and a martial arts expert, who will be on hand to test the evidence. High speed cameras, the latest in luminous dye technology and hi tech audio equipment are employed both in the studio and at the crime scene itself in Perugia to attempt to answer Knox on trial: The Key Questions.
Knox on Trial: The Key Questions will air later this month on Channel 5

Posted by TruthWillOut on 09/07/13 at 05:54 PM | #


Thanks. I’m keen to get a day/time when it will air to be sure I don’t miss it.

Posted by Odysseus on 09/07/13 at 06:35 PM | #

@Odysseus - I scanned Sky’s schedule for the next 7 days last night and it’s not listed as yet. If you see it, shout it!

Posted by TruthWillOut on 09/07/13 at 08:34 PM | #

I remember the photo of the unwashed Knox with her hand over her face from the time.

The loonies were saying its proof that Amanda was grieving for her dead friend.

I think it portrays the mother of all drug comedowns perfectly.

The drug and drink bubble has burst - now it is time to face reality.
It is of no wonder that Knox was (so she says) finding it difficult to distinguish dreams from reality.

Posted by DF2K on 09/08/13 at 10:22 AM | #

Yes. I have, unfortunately, had a great deal of experience of bereavement, of losing people close to me and loved.
I do not recognize grief as I know it in this (or other) photo.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 09/08/13 at 03:51 PM | #


“I noticed the intensity on Raffs face (last pic). Look at his eyes”

Intensity yes but there is also definitely that “morning after” spaced-out druggie look. Of course drugs (especially psychedelics) short-circuit normal psychic defences, allowing repressed material into consciousness. Non-ordinary drug experiences can be useful if integrated (in a therapeutic setting for example)  but otherwise they can be potentially calamitous in recreational use when inner turmoil is often fought against and acted out.

These two look as though they’ve spent the night acting out a nightmare. And the evidence points that way.

Posted by Odysseus on 09/08/13 at 05:51 PM | #

The English translation of the Supreme Court’s judgment will be available for download from PMF on Monday, September 9, 2013 at 0:01 am Rome time.

Posted by The Machine on 09/08/13 at 08:35 PM | #

Hi, all. I have been away on hiatus while I focused on several lines of investigation, which I hope to write up soon.

As some of you might know, this has resulted in attacks by Bruce Fischer and his minions, not for my personal spiritual views which I disclosed when I first got involved in the case, but my work on the case.

Since I first noticed this behavior a while back because of the attacks on Peter Quennell, I thought you might find this exchange with a Groupie on Ground Report interesting:

manfromatlan > Dave
“Like Steve Moore used FBI resources to check for Peter Quennell’s employment records?” 
Heisenberg > manfromatlan
“that’s a serious allegation ‘Ergon’.
you should really take that to the FBI.
unless of course, it’s false.”

manfromatlan > Heisenberg
“(I)Just mentioned his own words on his blog 😊 People can draw their own conclusions, make up their own minds. Goose, meet sauce.
As for Steve Moore, there are several things I can and could have done. I knew the principal alumni of Pepperdine, and could have caused trouble that way. I didn’t. Could have got his whole record of activities in Pakistan instead of what looks like resume padding, but why bother? He’s not relevant to the case.
What I object to is his looking up Peter Quennell’s employment records, which he admitted to doing on his own blog.
Deal with it.”
Heisenberg > manfromatlan
“so lets be clear.
are you or are you not stating that steve moore used FBI resources to check Peter Quennell’s employment records?
if you are stating this, why have you not informed the FBI?
if you dont give a straight answer, then you are obviously lying ....”
manfromatlan > Heisenberg
“Yap, yap, yap. If I saw you littering or not picking up after your dog, I wouldn’t report you either. Waste of time, and not my business. Are you saying Steve Moore didn’t write this? Hoist on your own petard, my friend.”

Posted by Ergon on 09/08/13 at 09:00 PM | #

Another post on Bruce Fischer’s latest on Ground Report.

“To the person way down below who suggested I ‘stop taking drugs’, I don’t take them, period, never have. Meditation keeps me quite at peace, as can be seen my composure in the face of these relentless personal attacks.
The persons who did take drugs that fatal night were Knox, Sollecito, and Guede, all of whom were high that night and under the influence.
And it is Knox above all, whose contemporaries alleged she was ‘self medicating’ with drugs and alcohol. For an undiagnosed personality disorder. My guess is, Narcissistic Personality Disorder with more than a touch of Autism Spectrum.
Recent research also points to drug induced psychosis. My theory of the crime has always been, Amanda Knox orchestrated it all in the throes of a drug induced jealous rage.”

Posted by Ergon on 09/08/13 at 09:05 PM | #

Of course the power of drugs and alcohol can never be underestimated when it comes to crimes of this nature.They are psychoactive substances after all and therefore dangerous.

I am speaking from experience because I was given Abilify when I was in the clinic and it altered my perception of reality to a great extent , so much so that I saw red shapes and patterns revolving around the hospital bed.

I suppose the street drugs Knox and Sollecito ingested may have been just as evil as the psychiatric drugs I was prescribed, glad I´m off them anyway.

Posted by aethelred23 on 09/08/13 at 10:43 PM | #

Hi Ergon

We among others are looking at Fischer’s foolish post which again raged very inaccurately at Dr Mignini. Fischer seems way behind the curve on all the latest developments.

My work information? I didnt know there was a problem. Though the FBI (where I also know people) would not be given access to UN records, its always been public here:

Steve Moore seems to take it that I somehow got him fired from Pepperdine University but (as Pepperdine will confirm) I never made contact with them. One day he was there and the next day fired. They have many students in Italy and hardly need a staff member raging against its government.

Steve raged early on about incompetent local investigators, without ever realising those investigators were actually the Italian equivalent of the FBI. If the two FBIs,  which co-operate very closely, havent discussed his inflated resume claims I’d be surprised. 

These intense rages some Knox supporters have a tendency for are unfortunate for Knox. There doesn’t seem to be a single cool head among them.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 09/08/13 at 11:01 PM | #

Hi Machine

On the Cassation report, that is great news. We will have a key-documents page up in a day or two with links to all of the key documents. Some other new pages will also come online soon.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 09/08/13 at 11:21 PM | #

I wouldn´t be posting here again if I weren´t really confused, but can one get convicted for being under the influence of medication ?

Of course comparing Abilify to the cocaine or LSD Knox and Sollecito took that night might be a bit rich, but can you be charged with a DUI while driving under the influence of a prescription drug for instance?

Posted by aethelred23 on 09/08/13 at 11:56 PM | #

Hi Aethelred

This would seem to be a defense choice and not a prosecution choice.

Knox herself didnt seek any equivalent of a plea bargain for being on or off off any mental medication, and her team always took a peddle to the floor not-guilty approach from 2008.

As to recreational drugs, well, Knox admitted to being high (hence the faulty memory) but said it was only the result of marijuana.

We posted a few times here (do a search including Comments) that skunk cannabis (genetically enhanced) has caused psychotic episodes and murders. Nobody to our knowledge got off a murder rap using that as a defense though.

Police and prosecutors have said the two were on cocaine on the night. That too has caused psychotic episodes and that too has not proved an effective defense.

Some here dont see drug use as proven to have CAUSED Meredith’s murder or any kind of excuse. If she did the crime she serves the time. Quite simple.

But a desperate defense at the new appeal may see blaming drug use as their only possible way to obtain some leniency. Just about every other possible defense line seems dead on arrival.

Seeking leniency for the two clashes very badly with the serial rages Fischer, Moore and others are letting run rampant. Who exactly IS driving the bus there?!

Posted by Peter Quennell on 09/09/13 at 12:12 AM | #

The Supreme Court report is now available for download from PMF:

Posted by The Machine on 09/09/13 at 01:05 AM | #

Aethelred23—yes, at least in Washington State, where I practice as a defense lawyer, you can be charged for driving under the influence of a legally prescribed drug.  I’m actually defending a DUI tomorrow alleging both alcohol and vicoden.  As to the drug use of Knox and Sollecito, in Washington State it could lead to a defense of diminished capacity, but that’s a tough sell to the average jury, particularly with circumstances like these…

Posted by Ceylon on 09/09/13 at 06:38 AM | #

Perhaps both the simulated burglary and the clean-up operation ( with some evidence selectively left) would contradict diminished capacity?
They both show a degree of calculation and manipulation, and capacity for forethought…very soon after the actual deed.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 09/09/13 at 08:22 AM | #

If all they did was smoke so much pot that they fell asleep/crashed after cooking “fish” (let Freud handle that one) and watching “Amelie” (oh, they’re so innocent & optimistic/romantic, those young “kids” - kak) which would put any pothead to sleep, why do they look so exhausted & dishevelled?  Blood everywhere, the house generally amiss (shutters, doors, shit in the can when “they’re normally so clean”)...  cell phone & computer records, changing stories, cartwheels, inappropriate PDA’s…  Puhleeze!
Look at her concocting her story as she speaks with praying hands…  She sickens me with her weakness and lies.
Maybe just wanted drug money and thought Meredith’s (viewed as privileged, not deserving/hard-won) rental cash was the easy grab, but not if she catches you in the act and threatens to tell your school, roommates, parents… about it?
Motive, opportunity… and no truth after.
Please let this end in Justice for the one who is the true victim: MK.

Posted by all4justice on 09/09/13 at 08:56 AM | #

In the praying hands picture Knox is clearly “helping the police” (lol) as she promised her mother. It wouldn’t surprise me if she was still taking drugs at this point (possibly amphetamine or cocaine) such is her unreal confidence and lack of nerves or concern about her plight. Not for nothing is cocaine for example widely used in show business

Posted by Odysseus on 09/09/13 at 11:27 AM | #

There we have it, a TJMK piece I remember from a long time ago , dwelling on the dangers of psychiatric medication :

So could prescription drugs be as destructive as street drugs? Is it really Abilify vs. cocaine?
But as far as we know Knox had never been on psychiatric drugs nor had she ever seen a psychiatrist before she arrived in Perugia.

Posted by aethelred23 on 09/10/13 at 04:03 AM | #

With certain psychiatric drugs, there is often danger and risk in a) stopping them suddenly or omitting to take a dose, and b) their interaction with other drugs (perhaps not prescribed, or illegal) - and, especially, alcohol.

The dangers are very real in both cases, and can and have been a factor in both suicide and homicide.

An immense problem with disturbed personalities with Personality Disorder is that there is a strong probability that there will be strong denial, and a complete lack of insight. This in itself makes the conditions untreatable (voluntarily), and increases the dangers of self-medication or illicit drug use.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 09/10/13 at 09:43 AM | #

@Seeking Understanding
Yes, of course these are the only problems associated with these drugs. When I was in hospital,the nurses took care to pay extra attention whether patients took their meds or not.If you refused, you would be sent to bed without supper. No meds, no food. I am still thrilled by the kindness and loving attention those people showed me when they were so extremely concerned that I do take my meds!

Posted by aethelred23 on 09/10/13 at 08:53 PM | #

@aethelred.  Thank you.
On the positive side, it is rather remarkable the recovery than can be achieved nowadays with careful, and as you say, loving support, combined with precise juggling of chemistry.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 09/10/13 at 09:21 PM | #

Yes, another nurse pulled me by the hair when she was particularly concerned for me and whenever a patient was unhappy and said that they wanted to go home , two kind men would appear and even strap him to a bed so they would not fall and hurt themselves. That was extreme love!

Posted by aethelred23 on 09/10/13 at 09:50 PM | #

Oh dear!
Well, there’s ‘correct procedure’ and there’s (loving) concern…I guess we can’t legislate for the latter, however much we might desire to…

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 09/10/13 at 10:22 PM | #
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