Precise Reasons For Arrests Of Sollecito, Lumumba And Knox On 6 Nov 2007

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Two weeks from today.  I wonder if the days are also flying by for Knox?  Will there be another media frenzy as the day draws near?  If Knox is going to flee i think now is the time, I know this has already been discussed, I would like to know if anyone has seen her in the last week or so, will she watch the proceedings from at home or try to hide out…....

What still makes me shake my head: did Knox actually think that she would just go home afterwards?  She just admitted that everything she had ever said to the police (including earlier that night), was a total lie.

Of course, Mignini found her unbelievable after these statements.  I can only imagine what he thought of her after it was shown PL was framed.

‘’ In regards to KNOX she has shown a particular ruthlessness in lying repeatedly to the investigators and in involving in such a serious event the young SOLLECITO.’‘

The paper makes note that Lumumba is not an EU citizen, but not Knox.  Does Knox have an EU (German passport) as well?  Would explain how she was able to get the offer with the Parliament in Berlin.

Typically showing no regret for anything, Knox set this entire thing in motion.  She is the SOLE reason Patrick was ever arrested, let alone suspected.

The second Knox statement and especially the third (handwritten) statement, which dropped Sollecito in it as well as Patrick, sure did the opposite of what Knox presumably hoped.

The first one, though containing a giant lie (the naming of Patrick), had a certain ring of truth after Knox insisted on it and had embellished it excitedly with her talk.

The second one Knox insisted upon was panicky and feverish, and very typically what suspects come out with when they have second thoughts about their first. Quite a red flag there.

The third one has to be absolutely unprecedented and unique in the annals of those who actually have no guilt. It headed halfway back toward the first and hinted at RS maybe having been there too.

For most juries anywhere, had they got to hear cross-examination on all three, this double flipflop would have been a smoking gun. All they would have needed.

Dr Mignini records what all the interrogators that night had concluded: “In regards to KNOX she has shown a particular ruthlessness in lying repeatedly to the investigators and in involving in such a serious event the young SOLLECITO.”

Next Judge Matteini cross-examined RS (Knox would not speak) and her report becomes more hardline than this.

Next Judge Ricciarelli’s panel also cross-examined RS and studied Knox from a number of angles including the cruel framing of Patrick which went on and on (with Edda’s knowledge) and the language of their report was the firmest of all.

We dont yet have that report itself, but here is John Follain in his book.

Their ruling was scathing in its analysis of Amanda. She had ‘a many-sided personality – self-confident, shrewd and naïve, but with a strong taste for taking centre stage and a marked, we could say fatal, ability in putting people together.’ She acted on her desires ‘even when they can lead to violent and uncontrollable acts.’

As for Amanda’s statements since Meredith’s death, they were a ‘constant attempt to do and undo, to say something and then immediately deny it, as if she wanted to please everyone. Such behaviour seems to be the result of slyness and naïvety at the same time.’

Here is the report of the Daily Telegraph.

In his ruling, Ricciarelli said Knox’s detention was justified because evidence showed she has multiple personalities, according to the Italian daily newspaper, Corriere della Sera, which published transcripts of the ruling on its Web site.

Corriere della Sera reported the judge as saying that Knox has a “high, we could say fatal, capacity for aggression.”

“(Knox) has a disposition to follow whatever drive she has, even when they can end up in violent and uncontrollable acts,” the ruling said, according to the paper.

The Knox defense team always refused to confirm that Knox had been coerced, and of course one lawyer walked off. Knox tried to claim she was pressured to Dr Mignini on 17 Dec but was so unconvincing to all present that she began to cry and her team shut her up.

She escalated slightly in coming months at times when she had no immediate fear of contradiction, and moreso at the 2009 trial where she was contradicted by many including Patrick which cost her her calunnia conviction. Even Hellmann in 2011 she failed to convince.

Around April 2008 Michael Heavey and Ann Bremner (and Joe Tacopino) were already spinning a “new truth” and the Marriott PR was launched. Despite the calunnia conviction the PR became forever more heated resulting in the wild claims by Kassin and the even more wild claims by Preston and Douglas and Moore.

Here is John Follain in his passage on the launching of the PR titled 20 May 2008.

From Perugia, Amanda’s lawyer Ghirga watched the publicity blitz with dismay; he was convinced that attacks in the media on Italian justice in general, and against Mignini and the police officers, weren’t helping her cause in the slightest. For one thing, Ghirga couldn’t accept the accusation that Amanda had been physically abused at the police station. He believed that attacking investigators in the media, as Edda and Curt were doing, would only antagonise all the people who really mattered: the police, the prosecutor, the judges and – if the case went to trial as he expected it to – the jurors who would decide Amanda’s future.

Guess what? Mr Ghirga is proved right.

Hi Chimera

Knox and Sollecito are confused because everything that worked for them before does not work now. Knox and Sollecito are of course tarred with the same brush who fed off each other. They are both spoiled children/adults who have always been able to get away with anything.

Consider Knox early life living with Edda who, because she felt sorry for her, gave her everything she wanted including all the freedom to get into all kinds of trouble. Edda never gave AK any grounding or set of morals. After all Edda was a “Free Spirit”

It was only when Chris Mellas came along that the full rot set in since AK was resentful of her mothers happiness and lashed out accordingly by doing outrageous things in order to be noticed by her biological father Curt; after all Edda didn’t need her anymore.

Sollecito’s mother died. Papa Sollecito spoiled him rotten as well. Birds of a feather who believed that by just saying something like “SORRY” they could literally get away with murder.

Knox more than Sollecito goes through life in a fog of denial believing that it will never happen to her. Well, the real world is about to descend with a bang. 

I watched Secretary of State John Kerry speaking to the Congressional Committee today with reference to Iran and ISIS.  Knox does not have a prayer, even if the extradition request goes that high.

Interesting content of the facts:

(1) As far as the essential facts against SOLLECITO there are numerous verifiable inconsistencies in his first declarations.

(2)  in respect to the last ones and the fact that, from a first inspection, the print of the shoe found on SOLLECITO appears to be compatible in its shape with the one found on the crime scene.

(3) November 1st and 2nd in the company of SOLLECITO Raffaele whom she met a few days before the event while he, after initially confirming the statements made by KNOX, confessed to have lied instructed by KNOX and made clear that he separated from KNOX at 21.30 of November 1st 2007, remaining at his house where he received a phone call from his father on the land line at 23:30.

(4) Moreover, there is the fact that KNOX claimed to not remember what happened between the victim’s screams up until she woke up in the morning in SOLLECITO’s bed,

(5) Furthermore from the data relating to the phone traffic of the number 3484673590 in use by KNOX there emerges a lack of phone traffic from 20:35 of November 1st to 12:00 November 2nd. Same lack of phone traffic from 20:42 of November 1st to 06:02 of November 2nd is found in the phone traffic of 3403574303 in use by SOLLECITO Raffaele.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but these facts alone (and many more emerged before the Matteini hearing), would have gotten any murder defendants held without bail.

@ Grahame - You are right that the Secretary of State has far bigger things to worry about.  Lobbying on behalf of a convicted sex killer - who skipped her own appeals - would not be on the agenda.  Knox is a nothing to the powers that be.

As for many prior suggestions that Knox could come to Canada ... she would be entering the country as a felon, thus illegally, unable to work or get housing.  Canada would extradite her.  It would not be the U.S.‘s place to interfere with the Canada-Italy extraditions.  Doing so would effectively nuke the US foreign relations with Canada and the EU.  Again, Knox is a nothing.

Knox and Sollecito were likely spoiled, you are right about this.  However, they were both adults (20 and 23) at the time.  This year they will be 28 and 31, and still no signs of growing up.  Neither ever pursued a life plan, and Sollecito never held a job in his life.

@ Pete - you are right that Ghirga distanced himself from Knox’s claims, as he probably saw that pursuing bogus charges could end his career.  Giancarlo Costa is arguably the wisest Knox lawyer, and he walked out rather than pursue a lost cause.

As for Dalla Vedova pursuing what a totally fraudulent European Court of Human Rights complaint ... any thoughts on what might happen to him?  Anyone?

For a self -proclaimed CSI fan, it is hard to believe Knox didn’t realize that police look for discrepencies between statements (which Knox has in spades), and between statements and evidence. Did she really think that none of her prior alibis, or versions would be checked?

Hi Chimera

On your first comment. No Knox does not have dual citizenship or an EU work permit, which meant in hiring her Patrick might have taken a risk had she stayed on long-term.

Students on very short-term jobs and unpaid interns (which Knox was in the Bundestag, for a day) would not be required to have a permit. Their employer would pay any tax.

After that Bundestag incident it seems to me she was trying to learn. She mimics what is hardwired into others as being right. Her repeated whacking of herself on the head is what some people with learning disabilities do.

SeekingUnderstanding has often referred to how that hardwiring is meant to evolve, and does so, in most of us. In Sollecito that might also not have evolved. Instead of whacking himself, though, he blames Knox.

Here is something on the Marriott PR that has been up for a long time now, but is still worth reviewing:

http://www.gogertymarriott.com/showcase/amanda_knox/

Early in November 2007 the father of Amanda Knox called Gogerty Marriott to ask for assistance with the barrage of media calls the family was getting from around the world. His daughter, Amanda, had been arrested and imprisoned in Perugia, Italy for the murder of her British flat mate, Meredith Kercher.

From that day forward, there has been continuous intense pressure from national and international media to talk with members of the family about their daughter. Gogerty Marriott has sought to relieve as much of the media pressure from the family’s shoulders as possible. At the same time we balanced the family’s need to have the truth told about their daughter’s innocence with that of the legal constraints of her trial and now her appeal. All the media accounts and leaks of inaccurate information occurred within the framework of a markedly different legal system than that in the United States. At the same time, we were helping the family get the truth out about their daughter, we also tried to help them maintain some sense of normalcy in their lives.

Complicating the handling of media on such a broad scale is the difference in language and translation of key facts and legal issues, as well as the time differences and the ability to meet media deadlines. Gogerty Marriott’s work for the family has brought them in touch with all major U.S. news networks – ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and Fox News, as well as independent programs such as Oprah Winfrey and a host of national and international magazines and newspapers.

(1) We’re helping the family get the truth out about their daughter?  So, you are saying the Italian courts are deceptive and corrupt?

(2) You ‘‘balanced’’ the family’s need to have the truth told about their daughter’s innocence, with that of the constraints of her trial and now her appeal?  So, again, the Italian court is deliberately covering the truth?

(3) Gogerty Marriott’s work for the family has brought them in touch with all the U.S. news networks.  Really?  Did they ever do an interview without pre-approved questions?

(4) Complicating the handling of media on such a broad scale is the difference of language and translation of key facts and legal issues.  How would he know?  He never received any translated documents.  Reporters like Andrea Vogt and Barbie Nadeau have ... and they draw very different conclusions than you do.

(5) There has been continuous intense pressure from national and international media to talk with members of the family about their daughter.  A bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.  You CREATED this pressure.

(6) You appeared on Oprah?  Did you ever disclose Amanda’s ‘‘Susan Smith’’ moment?  You know .... kill someone, then blame the black guy to divert attention.

(7) You are helping them maintain a sense of normalcy in their lives?  Please explain how.

So, from reading the website, it appears Marriott’s intent all along was to subvert the Italian justice system.  Perhaps if he had any translated documents (like this arrest order), he would have taken up a more worthwhile cause .... like promoting cute puppies or something.

Hi, Chimera, Carlo Della Vedova filed the ECHR application re the calunnia conviction for Knox, who chose not to release it publicly. I am sure he will also file one against her murder conviction, if only to create some fog for the upcoming extradition proceedings.

Nothing will happen to CDV, as he will go back to his regular business dealing, like the Messina Straits bridge 😊

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/268030749_Il_Ponte_sullo_Stretto_e_la_Canadian_Connection

The bridge over the Strait and the Canadian Connection
Antonio Mazzeo

ABSTRACT “Very little attention was paid by the media to the process underway in Rome against a senior engineer and his co-accused of have influenced the outcome of the tender for the construction of the Messina Bridge.  In the background, the Italian-American boss Vito Rizzuto and an alleged attempt to recycle 5 billion euro from international drug trafficking.  A dense network of economic interests and entrepreneurial binds Canada and some large companies with the devastating megaproject relaunched by the Berlusconi government. 

Chapter 1 - Brooklyn, the mafia godfathers Old Bridge 1 Italian Americans by boundless dedication to the festivals of Francis Ford Coppola;  an elderly practitioner available to make a bridge with the giants of the buildings and the political underworld of our house;  a couple of fixers from consolidated entrature between petroprincipi Middle East, chasing commissions and kickbacks. 

In the background the Strait Bridge, the eighth wonder of the world, the panacea for every ill of the reviled South. 

And the large criminal organizations, the trafficking of drugs and weapons in the five continents, who want to raise a ecomostro that legitimate front for posterity.  It was 12 February 2005 and the agents of Public Safety were knocking at the doors of a luxury apartment in the Parioli district of Rome.  They carried with them an arrest warrant for a senior engineer.  The prosecutor accused him of being the capital of the nominee of the Mafia and ‘Ndrangheta to complete the deal of the century: recycle five billion Euros, the proceeds of drug trafficking, and make the connection stable between Sicily and Calabria. 

The first two chapters are drawn from research conducted by the author on behalf of the Sicilian Documentation Centre “Giuseppe Impastato” Palermo, forthcoming.  They evoke some judicial investigations not yet finalized. 

Everyone involved and / or referred to in various ways, are to be considered innocent until final judgment”

Hi Chimera

Good seven points on the PR. It would be easy to add another seven, for example on the world-record blood-money, the constant demands that media pay for access, the yelling and screaming at “errant” reporters, the encouraging of the illegal stalking of the Kerchers, Marriott’s jubilant claims that he had won after Hellmann sprung Knox, the huge number of lies by omission such as Knox’s drug dealer and the real evidence.

I would add that I have yet to encounter any lawyer who likes to see a case falsely won by overzealous and dishonest PR. Ghirga was quoted above; he is interchangeable with many others. Even the more competent PR gurus with a conscience have said to us that Marriott is an outlier in their profession.

Maybe Marriott is now like a deer in the headlights, not the only one among the Knox vigilantes, very obviously stuck with the foolish claims that you posted, but no easy way to quietly disappear them.

Trends in the media… not enough data points yet for a post on a sea-change but Johnny Yen emailed this cover of the supermarket tabloid People, one of several seeing Knox as already and rightfully convicted.

_

On cable TV channels here in the US there are at least a dozen one-hour reports daily on new and old crime cases. There are several series exclusively focused on women who kill, there seems a special sizable audience just for that angle.

Watch a few of those and it is hard to see how Knox (the real Knox) is any different. Except in the scale in which she has hurt people.

I bought the magazine yesterday: Well worth the $15.99 CDN for all the other cases covered. As for Knox, nothing new but at least it’s very neutral now.

One mistake: “Her case faces further appeals in Italy”. Nope, the final one coming up in less than two weeks.

For those who are able to access BBC’s iPlayer…there’s a good programme on BBC Four called the ‘Mystery of Murder :a Horizon special.’  It’s on at 11pm tonight, GMT, and was first shown Monday night this week.

An author who I’ve mentioned before here - Dr Adrian Raine - is talking on the programme. A lot is explored, including the differences in the brains of murderers, and the influence of genes (actually it seems that lacking a specific gene is important) countered by the influence of a violent or happy childhood - thus showing there is no excuse…one can’t just ‘blame the genes’.

The amygdala (primitive and basic emotions) and the pre-frontal cortex (restraint to impulses) are discussed, as these are the areas that show up differently.

It also showed how ‘therapy’ for psychopaths at a certain time/fashion actually made them worse, as they became cleverer at manipulating, and concealing outrageous thoughts. (Like someone who has become very crafty on chat shows?)

It all seemed very interesting and relevant, if more than a little sad. However there is some progress being made on recognising in advance.

***

Thinking about what might be going through AK’s mind at the moment, as per the top comment by Mark- I doubt that she is preoccupied by conscience, so I suspect that actually she is being very practical.

She knows what Cappanne is like, and the things that irked her about it - that ‘large red bag’ - or perhaps it’s a large green one now! - is being filled with books, materials, addresses, contacts, digital gizmos…all that will be indispensable within a few months.

Somewhere, on some level, she knows the truth, and also the truth about herself and her own behaviour. Whether she will ever be able to acknowledge it, even to herself, is another question.

And Sollecito ? I feel he is immersed in a sea of self pity, which blurs everything, even his ability to think straight…never his strong point.

Hello SeekingUnderstanding
Well I did try but sadly I can’t download BBC1. But Poldark episode #1? Good Lord, and then there’s ‘Call the Midwife?’ In my experience I never saw a midwife who looked like that.
Ah Brit TV. Here, except for Public Television and such things as Foyle’s War, it’s just reality shows which insult anyone with intelligence. Example, ‘Naked and Afraid’ Two people all alone in the wilderness except for two camera crews, lighting technicians, script writers and caterers, not to mention the camper trailers for all the crew at the end of each days shooting. In other words you’re lucky.

Hi SeekingUnderstanding

Great tip on this important documentary. Anyone here can watch or download it here for a day or two.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/videos/perugia/BBCTheMysteryOfMurder.avi

Tks for the help to one of our good friends in the BBC, copy is not to be distributed thanks.

Powerful analysis of the events and statements of these two violent criminals. It’s clear that they cannot get any detail correct, small or large. Time and again they get caught out in inconsistencies.

Was Filomena’s door open or closed?
Did they have sex or didn’t they?
Where was Amanda located when she called Meredith’s phone?
What did they eat for dinner?
Was Amanda with Raffaele all night?
Who did Raffaele email?
Did they wake up at 6am (when they turned their cell phones on) or did they sleep in late?
Where is the “large” purse that Sollecito said Amanda used?
Why did Amanda say she met Lumumba (a black man) that night? Is it because someone might have spotted her with Guede (another black man, one who would have the goods on Amanda)?

It’s all so obvious. Unfortunately, it’s difficult to package into a soundbite to convince the American public.

@SeekingUnderstanding

Thanks very much for the video link. Very good. I started off thinking it was going to be simplistic/reductionist especially when it described the poor cat having electrodes put in its brain which when stimulated made the cat aggressive (surprise, surprise!). It felt like being in a time-warp from the crude behaviourism of the fifties.

However the second half was excellent when it was made clear that any genetic/structural disposition to aggression and murder could likely be cancelled by good nurture (i.e. raising a child in a loving environment)- or no doubt amplified in its absence.

Maybe after the 25th we will find out a lot more about AK’s early family environment. That could be be very interesting.

Where next:

Or to next entry Questons For Knox: Adding A Dozen More To The Several Hundred Knox So Far Avoided

Or to previous entry The Meredith Case Wiki Now Has The Key Sollecito Statement 6 Nov 2007 In Full