Thursday, March 05, 2015

Ten Of The Ways In Which The FOA Petition That The State Department Accepted Is Dishonest

Posted by Our Main Posters

1. Post Overview

It is hard to believe that the Knox PR is guided by a professional - good PR operatives know to just shade the truth.

Again and again in sharp contrast the Knox PR tries to go 180 degrees the other way. Down is up. Black is white. “Don’t believe your lying eyes” stuff.

Instead of making one or two mistakes, it makes hundreds - and then lets them stand when challenged. Many amount simply to childish tantrums.

In Italy all the lawyers (on both sides), and all the judges, and all the media, simply ignore them.

This is made easy enough, as they are usually pushed out only in English in relative safety across the Atlantic.

This is a great example.

2. The ChangeOrg Petition by The Knox PR

The guilt of the pair was confirmed by the Nencini appeal court in Florence six weeks ago. What was particularly telling was the stark two-day presentation of the massive evidence by Prosecutor Crini.

It caused Sollecito to miss the second day and then head off “secretly” to the Dominican Republic to seek help there. 

It also caused this shrill and inaccurate petition in which, tellingly, none of the defense lawyers played any part - possibly as they have been highly critical of previous scaremongering.

The petition consists mostly of blustery innuendo. No supporting facts are pointed to. It is inaccurate on the judicial sequence, on official motives throughout, and on Italian law. It omits the prosecution case which took Prosecutor Crini two days to present.

In the shrill tone and false claims it resembles the Knox email to Judge Nencini ten weeks previously, and numerous attempts by Knox apologists Heavey & Bremner and Italian MP Rocco Girlanda to influence top leaders (all failures).

Any Italian court would take this to be an attempt to throw an ongoing legal process through dishonest means, a mafia technique, which is a felony (vilipendio) in Italy.

These are some of the major errors. 

1) Unspecified claim of corruption by Italian state?

Neither defense team ever claimed this. There was demonstrably no official corruption at any point, and no obvious reason for it. The entire legal process was closely supervised by a series of judges including Supreme Court justices and fully documented.

There IS public proof of corruption (the Hellmann appeal court was subverted) but that was effected by the defense teams.

2) Unspecified claim of abuse of RS and AK?

Neither defense team ever claimed this. Both were treated extremely well. Knox conceded that at trial. There was no abuse of the pair, ever, and significantly no paper trail of complaints by either the two defenses or the US Embassy monitoring the process.

In fact the defenses have almost invariably inclined the other way, stating that claims of abuse by the PR are a foolish way to go. In 2008 they publicly requested that Knox stop lying.

3) Claim of abusive interrogation of Knox?

Neither defense team ever claimed this. There was no abusive interrogation of Knox on 5-6 Nov - in fact, there was no interrogation at all. In great detail what happened was described at trial.

Knox had insisted on being there, and when asked she agreed to list possible perps, all of whom the cops extensively checked out. She herself incessantly offered explanations on the night (all part-true and part-false) when she was told Sollecito did not support her latest alibi.

She herself insisted on putting them in writing. The investigators tried hard on the night to calm her as she herself confirmed at trial.

4) Legal representation denied?

Neither defense team ever claimed this. Knox was repeatedly told she should have a lawyer present when she explosively “confessed” on 5-6 November 2007. Knox herself shrugged off the need for a lawyer on that night as her statements came pouring out - even after Dr Mignini had read her her rights - as multiple witnesses testified.

Knox still cant explain why she twice claimed she headed out alone on the night, leaving Sollecito behind. Or why she lied about Dr Mignini abusively questioning her at her first session finishing at 1:45 am when in fact he was home in bed.

5) The pair held unfairly before trial?

Neither defense team ever claimed this. RS and AK had SIX opportunities between November 2007 and January 2009 to get themselves freed or moved to house arrest. They failed each time and all courts gave detailed reasoning. In one of those it was the Court of Cassation which turned them down. Each often blamed the other.

The supervising magistrate Judge Matteini documented an extensive list of evidence against them and ruled that if allowed house arrest they could flee or cause harm to witnesses. This was not based on a single fact as claimed.

6) Guede’s process unfair to them?

Neither defense team ever claimed this. The claims about Guede in that petition are upside down. He did not target the pair in 2008 - in reality they went gunning for him and sustained that right through trial on a daily basis to the final appeals.

This was public knowledge in mid 2008 as this UK report shows.

Claims have been made of a pact between Knox and her Italian former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 24. It is alleged their lawyers have agreed to work together to blame the murder on Rudy Guede, 21, a part-time gardener from the Ivory Coast and the third accused.

Now, Guede’s lawyers are threatening to call for a separate trial for him alone - well away from the legal teams of the other two whom they fear could prejudice his case.

It is a pact, says Guede’s lawyer Walter Biscotti, that can be traced back to July when Sollecito sent Knox a bouquet of yellow flowers on her 21st birthday which both celebrated in prison.

‘There is a clear desire to make Rudy the guilty party, and it’s clear they will try anything,’ Biscotti said.

Added: In July 2013 lawyer James Raper put up this post: Did Guede’s Separate Trial REALLY Impact Negatively On RS And AK?

7) Guede fingered the pair?

Neither defense team ever claimed this. Guede did not testify at the 2009 trial, he just sat there mute and then went away. In sharp contrast, the RS and AK teams introduced witness after witness attempting to do maximum harm to him long before his own legal process was concluded. For example: 

    (a) The witness who said Guede was in his apartment; but he had not even reported that to the cops, and Judge Micheli concluded he was a publicity hound at best.

    (b) The two lawyers who said someone broke into their office; but even they hinted it was really a work-related hit as legal documents had been gone though and some probably copied and removed in a car by several persons.

    (c) The head of the pre-school in Milan; but she could not even call Guede’s presence a break-in, because he must have been given a key to get in.

    (d) Both defenses labeled him a drifter, drug dealer, woman-molester and habitual thief. No proofs for any of these charges was presented.

This was highly unfair to Rudy Guede. His own legal process was far from over. Neither he nor his lawyers were even in court to cross-examine or repudiate any of those witnesses. The prosecution took zero role - merely observed, and asked zero questions - so in reality it was the RS and AK defenses and not Guede who had an unfair edge here.

8) Courts wrongly tied them with Guede?

Neither defense team ever claimed this. The closed sessions at trial in 2009 showed conclusively to the judges that there had been THREE attackers which the defenses simply had to agree to.

The Sollecito defense put Alessi and Aviello on the stand. Bizarrely, the mafioso Aviello pointed AWAY from Guede; he claimed two others had done it; then he claimed the Sollecito defense team had offered payment.

Cassation did not say in ending Guede’s process that it must have been RS and AK along with Guede at the crime. It left who they were open.  Cassation simply agreed that there were three

9) Guede did the crimes by himself?

Neither defense team ever claimed this, for the reason explained directly above: too much evidence. This was not a one man crime by a rapist or burglar (a burglar at 8:00 in the evening, with cars around and some tenants probably at home in the house?). It was provably a 15-minute torture and humiliation pack-attack, fueled by rage, drugs,  and quite probably jealousy.

Knox’s trial and appeal courts both concluded that she plunged in the knife. Sollecito and Guede have shown strong signs of not having not been pre-warned, and remaining sore and resentful of Knox ever since.

10) Omitted is enormous factual evidence

As usual with the PR a huge amount about the case and RS and AK is simply left out. Here is a comment from another thread attacking CBS which explains how this lies-of-omission approach works (or doesn’t work) and the same omissions apply to the petition.

If you watch the numerous CBS videos or read the numerous attacks on Italy on their site, do you spot a trend? CBS 48 Hours is prone to leaving an awful lot out.

Where is CBS’s translation of even one major document? Where is evidence of knowledge of even one court transcript? Where is the real reason the appeals were allowed? Where are the six opportunities RS and AK were given before trial to prove they had no role? Where are the bad times the defense had in 2009? What about the lengthy trial sessions behind closed doors? Where are the numerous conflicting alibis?  Where are the numerous whacks at one another by RS and AK? Where is AK’s disastrous stint on the stand? Where is any mention of the dealer Knox screwed for drugs? Where is the current trial of RS for his book? Where is the trial of Oggi for Knox’s book? Where is the Knox interrogation hoax? Where is the Carabineri lab nailing the “science” of C&V? Where is the known corruption of the Hellmann court? Where is the downfall of defense witnesses Alessi and Aviello? Where is the Guede/lone-wolf hoax?  Where is the downward spiral of Frank Sforza now on trial in Italy and wanted by US and Canadian police? Where is any fair remark about the Italian system or its staff? Where is the long overdue expose of the Preston hoaxes? Why are Spetzi’s many losses in court not there? Where is the truth about the Narducci 22? Where is Dr Mignini’s total rebound and promotion after Cassation sharply repudiated a rogue prosecutor and judge in Florence?  Why does CBS feel such a need to defame so many Italians in English from so far? Where is any mention of the PR’s corrupting very big bucks?

We have no problem seeing the foolish petition remain up - but in their own best interests Knox herself and Sollecito himself should want the incriminating thing taken down. It will merely further annoy the courts.

And they really should tell the blundering Marriott and his online thugs to get lost.

3. Even Knox Supporters Despise This

Not the first time the forever-grandstanding Pruett spikes anger among her own people. This is from one of their myriad sites; she has often claimed she is closer to Curt Knox than any of them.

This person, Karen, is not worth the time or attention she is getting. She has no expertise in any remotely relevant subject matter, does not speak a word of Italian, and has largely exaggerated the slenderest of ties to the victim. She did not even attend high school at the same time as Knox’s father - she is 59 years old FFS.


I was just wondering. I “assume” RS and AK realize they will be spending time in prison. RS seems to be backtracking and taking a more ‘humble’ approach. Since the Court of Cassation (is this another name for Supreme Court?) cannot modify sentencing or evidence, is RS most likely doing PR so the Court will take this into consideration further down the line when he tries to get his sentencing reduced or early release?

It would seem he is distancing himself from his book as he previously had no clue what he was in for and now he is looking at more time in prison along with new fines. From a legal standpoint, what is his angle, if any legal minds wish to speculate? Also, AK publicly still seems to be in denial so I do not see any ‘strategizing’ going on in that camp except maybe crying “He….....lp”.

Posted by Vinnie on 03/05/15 at 03:02 AM | #

Hi Vinnie.

Yeah thats probably his only bet. Several years closer to work release. Contrition would help him somewhat; Guede did attempt that to the Kerchers in court direct.

Like Guede, Sollecito sure doesnt want to be locked up while Knox roams free. If she did the crime she needs to serve the time.

But early work release is not a sure thing. Just a month or two ago Guede got another three years for holding the stolen property he was found with in Milan.

Sollecito has the book trial on his hands, and if he loses that, the REAL trouble begins. Everyone slimed in the book will take him to court, its a sure thing.

Cassation & Supreme Court are indeed the same thing.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/05/15 at 03:28 AM | #

Yes that’s it. I did correspond briefly with Karen Pruet and as I said to her at the time “Be careful what you wish for.” since she,and the rest of the FOA want a review of the evidence. If there was such a review then what would they do after that? Probably maintain it was some kind of vast international plot to ensnare Knox.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 03/05/15 at 04:01 AM | #


Nicely done.

Knox and Oggi - any updates on that?  Or has any other complaint been lodged regarding ‘‘Waiting to Cash in’‘?

You know, in that petition take out the ‘T’ and the ‘I’ in the captioning, ‘‘Protect THEIR inviolable rights’‘, and it is actually a pretty fair headline.

Only 10 major problems in the petition?  Silly details.

Posted by Chimera on 03/05/15 at 04:05 AM | #

Thank you Peter and Grahame,
Justice is right around the corner.

Posted by Vinnie on 03/05/15 at 05:07 AM | #

@ Vinnie - Raffy may be trying to simply claim that he is not responsible for the crime, since he wasn’t aware of the contents.  He is pulling an ‘‘ignorance’’ claim, as I understand it.

Massei, in the 2009 trial, showed a lot of mercy by giving him only 30 years, then cutting 5 off for ‘‘mitigating factors’‘.  Sollecito must know by now that all goodwill is gone, and the sentences will only go up.

But, this ignorance claim falls flat for several reasons.

Problem 1: he went on a book tour and repeated many of those same lies on TV (such as harsh interrogation, and ‘‘deal’’ to turn on Knox).  So, while claiming not to have written those things, he SAYS them to a global audience.

Problem 2: (if what I have heard is correct), part of his defence is to claim the Italian interpretation is wrong [as it was published in English only].  It will waste the court’s time and resources to translate it.

Problem 3: It makes a totally mockery of his claim that he had nothing to say.  [He says in the book he didn’t testify for that reason]. Sollecito does a fricking BOOK TOUR, but when called before Judge Nencini, he refuses an invitation to testify.

Seriously, the guy who goes on national TV in the U.S. suddenly had nothing to say?

Problem 4: While claiming HIS OWN BOOK, that Italian authorities railroaded him and Knox, the contents of the book actually confirm many key facts and circumstances alleged.  RS admits everything from trying to bribe expert witnesses, to lying about DNA, to collaborating with Knox for an alibi.

Problem 5: Sollecito doesn’t seem to have much to say to this court.  If the book were substantially true, or if he could point out the errors, you’d think RS would jump at the chance to explain things, but he doesn’t. (shades of the Nencini appeal).

Problem 6: Sollecito and his legal team don’t seem to grasp the contradictions here.

-Raffaele claims that he didn’t write those things, even though he repeats them to a U.S. audience, but claims the translations are wrong?  Well how can he know they are wrong, if he didn’t know what was in there?

-Raffaele keeps silent in the trial (Massei) court, mostly through the first appeal (Hellmann) court, goes on a book tour, then silent at the new appeal (Nencini) court, gives media interviews, and again silent in this court. He only speaks his ‘mind’ if a judge is not there.

-Raffaele doesn’t seem to realize that his latest alibi (Knox was with him in the evening, but not the night), does another hatchet job on his alibi.  Stunning that Maori and Bongiorno took almost 7 years to get this little fact straight, ‘‘they were together in the evening, but not the night’‘.

-Raffaele seems to be indicating he pretty much just put his name on it while someone else (Gumbel and Co.), wrote it—a.k.a O.J. Simpson.  He doesn’t realize that he comes off as a money hungry opportunist.  ‘‘Honor Bound’’ is about as absurd a title as Knox’s ‘‘Waiting to be Heard’‘.


I’m not a lawyer, but here is my 2 cents.

(a) Sollecito, after released by Hellmann, saw an opportunity to cash in, by sliming Italy.  His father and sister, Vanessa saw how dangerous this was. Far from honourable, he rode this to his full benefit, not realizing that it would crash down, when Cassation/Supreme Court annulled Hellmann’s ruling.

(b) Probably Bongiorno and Maori were out of the loop, but somebody gave very bad advice, publishing this book (and while still accused).  RS is either a slimy idiot, or lacks any common sense, or both.

(c) This is just twisting, hoping that his lawyers can get him off.  He has no real defence.

(d) The problem here, is that no one except a lawyer could look at all the massive contradictions and inconsistencies, and see anything but guilt.  At the Nencini appeal, Bongiorno’s summary essentially was that the murder accusation was ‘‘too harsh’‘.  Yet, she started the appeal saying she would prove his innocence.  Seriously?

(e) Sollecito could man up, for once in his life. His best chance might have been the Nencini appeal.  Like Knox, he is a child inside.

Hope this helps. Pardon the length.

Posted by Chimera on 03/05/15 at 06:56 AM | #

Spot on Chimera

Posted by pensky on 03/05/15 at 12:57 PM | #

What this points out is that both Sollecito and Knox have used these excuses all their lives. ie “it’s not my fault but the fault of others.” Now though this kind of twisting out of responsibility no longer works. I suspect they are confused because telling the truth for a change is new territory for them hence the floundering and the eventual blame game towards each other. i predict that Knox sooner or later, will blame everything on Sollecito and vis versa. Or drugs. Or even Meredith herself. Nasty people and I’m being kind here.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 03/05/15 at 02:34 PM | #

Peter, you are quite right that contrition would help Sollecito,(and Knox), but it would need to be predicated on an open admission of guilt, backed up by a full account of their involvement in poor Meredith’s murder.

Frankly, given that both of them have argued their “innocence” for the last seven and a half years,(despite the mountain of hard evidence against them), I am not holding my breath that either of them will ever admit and repent of this dreadful crime.

Posted by Mealer on 03/05/15 at 02:41 PM | #

Hi Chimera and Mealer

Great points. You touch on the interplay of the two competing dynamics, on which not enough has been written in English.

(1) To pull oneself back from the fire.

(2) To push the other two in closer.

The media except for a seemingly fascinated Andrea Vogt remains largely uncomprehending, and of course Marriott and the FOA act quite blind to them, presumably deliberately, as we can see yet again in this petition.

It would be a difficult feat to pull off even for geniuses. Each can work only within very narrow limits. Each has bottled up an immense amount of anger. If they succeed a bit at one, they worsen it for themselves on the other.

For example, they cannot push too hard on (2) without explaining how they knew things, which defeats the purpose of (1).

Knox is unquestionably the worst at it. She seems to have an appalling memory, and is not strong on logic or on reading other people. Time and again the other two blindside her.

Sollecito is quite “good” at it but his capture by the FOA on the US west coast in 2012-13 resulting in his book really blew it for him. He remains highly erratic. If Knox was the lead loose cannon through the attack on Meredith and up to the end of the trial, he took over that lead role after his book came out. 

Guede is mostly tucked away quietly in his cell but ironically he was edged into the short-form trial by the lawyers for the other two, as the newspaper quote in the post above explains.

Such a public attempt to stick it to Guede was NOT the lawyers’ smartest move ever, and never has been; compare the outcomes and length of the sentences.

His damaging written statement sparked by Alessi (who was in turn sparked by Bongiorno) had to be read out by Mignini during Hellmann, he didnt want to. That statement went the way of annulment but for a while caused real damage.

Guede had no speaking role during Masssei or Nencini. For the supposed mastermind as in this absurd petition he sure achieves a lot with very little…

On this theme (we could use some more posts) here is a great post by Michael in December 2008 after Guede’s trial but before that of the other two.

Here are several others on the same theme:

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/05/15 at 05:37 PM | #

Of course the other two competing dynamics are:

1) That of the Italian lawyers.

2) That of the PR in the US.

Reading all of the court transcripts is a real revelation. The Italian lawyers work within very narrow limits as there is this HUGE paper trail. Check out these posts.

The PR carries on as if that paper trail does not even exist. Marriott once proudly announced that he had not visited Italy or really studied the case. He met Knox only late in 2011.

To most Italians, and to us, and to more and more in the US, that is so obvious. Knox is cooked. Sollecito is cooked. Guede is cooked. They all just sustain a little game playing.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/05/15 at 06:28 PM | #

Maybe we should start a petition on behalf of Meredith and the dozens of others whose human rights Knox and RS and their paid vigilantes have abused…. 

Actually, Italy is already on it. This is the list of names the Marriott/FOA petition is addressed to. This list will not help them if charges are filed for vilipendio.

Representative Suzan DelBene
Foreign and Commonwealth Office Rt. Hon. Philip Hammond
President of the United States
U.S. Senate
U.S. House of Representatives
Representative Denny Heck
Representative Jim McDermott
Representative Jaime Herrera Beutler
Representative Cathy McMorris Rodgers
Senator Maria Cantwell
Senator Patty Murray
Representative Rick Larsen
Representative Adam Smith
Representative Dave Reichert
Representative Derek Kilmer
Representative Doc Hastings
Ministero della Giustizia Andrea Orlando

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/05/15 at 07:03 PM | #

Hi Peter
Hopefully the counter petition will come about, after all every little bit helps. You may have noticed also that the forces of evil often refer to this site as a ‘Propaganda site’ which of itself is laughable since they maintain that they are not.

As silly as that first appears it is interesting to note that they do not see themselves in the same light. This is a clue to how they think because not only do they fervently believe that everything in their petition is completely true but see every countervailing opinion as being completely wrong and very suspicious.

They think that everything is produced by Italy. Sad but true and very xenophobic.

Still given enough clues they show themselves for what they are. That is mostly very young, innocent and untraveled and at the mercy of the Fischers/Moores of this world. No wonder that Gogarty Marriot, Curt Knox Chris Melles etc; found swaying public opinion to be so easy. that is the basis for Jim Jones Micheal Koresh religious fervor and cult development.

Michelle Sings Celestial Easterly Moore take note…....  Also the public outrage at Jodi Arias being spared the death penalty, while almost a forgone conclusion, also points up the thinking of the general public who go through life uninformed and wish to remain so.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 03/05/15 at 11:47 PM | #

Strongly suggest we not do a petition since those things are disregarded anyway, and it becomes a numbers game.

Better to ridicule the multiple signatures on Change ORG by the same individuals or how the count often jumps up by 400+ overnight as the bots go to work from fake e-mail accts.

Contrast with this genuine Avaaz Org petition to the German foreign minister that stands at 652,593 verified sigs compared to Knox’s measly 3500+

Write a letter directly to the representatives Peter listed. More effective IMO.

Posted by Ergon on 03/06/15 at 02:50 AM | #

The news that Jodi Arias will not get the death penalty, comparatively speaking with other news items, hardly got a splash. On the other hand the news that Harrison Ford had crashed his plane plus that a commercial aircraft had slid off the runway got far more coverage. Although I’m sure that such programs as Nancy Grace will make a program out of the Arias thing there was hardly anything at all. I could be wrong, but I don’t see Knox getting much more coverage because there are far more important news items to report.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 03/06/15 at 03:20 AM | #

Thank you Chimera,
I can see how RS is pulling the “ignorance” game but that goes out the door because of what he claimed in his book and public appearances. He obviously knows more than he is willing to share and that leads him into withholding crucial evidence. Since there is the bathmat and the DNA on bra strap evidence there seems nowhere he can hide. He is busted which ever way he turns.

Posted by Vinnie on 03/06/15 at 07:48 AM | #

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