Monday, August 25, 2014
Knox Interrogation Hoax #11: Why Prosecution And Defenses Never Believed Knox’s Version #2
Posted by Our Main Posters
Famous criminal lawyer Dr Giancarlo Costa - did he depart Knox’s team with doubts about her?
Recapitulating Our Purpose
In Post #10 below we hinted at two items - in fact, they are two documents - that resulted in a sharp drop in Knox’s credibility.
We said this about how Knox’s Perugia lawyers were affected.
It seems impossible to know about these items, and yet still believe that Knox was telling the truth. Lawyers often encourage their clients to tell the truth and good lawyers never encourage their clients to lie. And yet here Ghirga, Dalla Vedova, Bongiorno and Maori would have known from latest early 2008 that Knox’s claims on the “interrogations” were in fact made up.
And if so, they must have asked themselves, why? Why did Knox have to lie? In all the legitimate legal processes, meaning all those except the Hellmann appeal, the defense lawyers were seen by close observers to be dispirited and lacking the full punch that the certainty of innocence can bring.
Knox was lying. And they all knew. No hard proof, but it explains the timid cross-examinations. And it was the buzz around Perugia maybe put out by the Sollecito faction for which there is a sort of soft proof.
The one heavyweight among Knox’s lawyers, a prominent criminal lawyer from Rome called Dr Giancarlo Costa, who was with her at the 6-hour 17 December 2007 questioning (which we turn to next) inexplicably departed from her team early-on, leaving her with the much less experienced Ghirga and Dalla Vedova.
Sharp-eyed Andrea Vogt and Barbie Nadeau both noticed that no mention of Dr Costa was made in Knox’s book. Late in 2009 and again late in 2011 Andrea Vogt interviewed him, and he seemingly suggested that Knox might have been better served at the end of the process by a negotiated plea, in effect similar to Guede’s. (If so, he is now proved right, and the remaining Knox lawyers or her family made a very bad call.)
We said this about how all the prosecutors and all the judges were affected.
In the years that followed since, these two items helped to changed legal mindsets, from Prosecutor Mignini, to Judge Matteini, to Judge Micheli, to Judge Massei, to even Judge Hellmann, and so on to Cassation and the Nencini appeal.
Describing The Two Incriminating Items
Now we turn to the two items, the two documents, the two elephants in the room. They are rock-solid confirmation of all the testimony by investigators in Posts #2 to #9, and in days of defense cross-examination they were not argued with. They were correctly guessed by several emailers. They are of course:
(1) Rita Ficarra’s notes of the 12:45 session
Inspector Ficarra wrote up these notes at 8:00 pm on the evening of 6 November, about six hours after Knox and Sollecito were carted off to Capanne Prison.
This was long before she knew she would be contradicted and years before she knew she would be accused of criminal actions. The notes were in evidence, and it was clear during cross-examination that the defense teams had studied them.
She recorded a description of the session in direct line with her testimony in Hoax Post #2 and Hoax Post #3 and Hoax Post #4. It anticipated perfectly the scenario that emerged from other investigators present.
(2) Knox’s hand-written list of seven names
She wrote these out along with maps and annotations. The list had very obviously been created over a prolonged period of time. This must have occupied all but the final minutes of the session, at which point she lost her cool, had her first conniption, and fingered Patrick.
Here again from Post #2 is the testimony about it by Rita Ficarra. GCM stands for Judge Massei and GM stands for Dr Mignini.
RF: At that point I say to her: “for me it is important then that we write these [names etc down], that therefore, since you are waiting [NdT. i.e. for Raffaele], let’s go do a follow-up to the recap that you have already given me, have already submitted to me”. So I go to the office, that is to say, I go into the office room, and we begin to write.
GM: Listen: before continuing, she wrote a note?
RF: Yes.
GM: The note: you can, I believe you can consult/examine/refer to it.
GCM: Yes, certainly, it is permitted to consult/examine/refer to her records.
GM: I am referring to everything that that note reported.
RF: Yes, I’ve already said that, in effect”¦ The note of 6 November, at 2000 hours, I made it in the evening because having then not slept for two days, I went [straight] to bed in morning when I finished. Morning and afternoon.
The first part I’ve already related and it gives me indications about these boys, about non-Italians, about a certain PJ Peter Svizzero, who had seemingly been several times in their home and who lived nearby the area of via della Pergola 7.
Patrick, of the [sic] owner of the pub, Le Chique [sic], where she herself worked, I’ve already said, she gives me the mobile-phone information.
Then she speaks of a certain Ardak, a North African citizen, and gives me the mobile-phone information.
A certain Juve, an Algerian citizen, who worked occasionally at the Le Chique [sic] pub and who apparently lived in the vicinity of the home of another of the victim’s friends.
Sofie [sic]; also for him she gives me the mobile information.
Spiros, a young lad of Greek nationality, for whom she givers me only the mobile-phone information.
Shaki [Hicham Khiri], a Moroccan citizen who works in a pizzeria, frequents the [same] pubs [as those] frequented by all the girls of the victim’s group, and [is] also friends with Sofie [sic].
She furthermore reports about a black South African boy, short, who plays basketball in the Piazza Grimana court, [and] who on one occasion had apparently visited the home of the boys who lived underneath the apartment.
So Knox eagerly devoted considerable time to recalling and explaining who Peter Svizzero, Patrick, Ardak, Juve, Spiros, Shaki and a South African [Guede, disguised] were, with maps to some of their places and phone numbers thrown in. She was talking and writing at the same time. The four investigators needed to do little more than sit watching.
Contrast The “Explanation” In Knox’s Book
In her book Knox makes no mention of any of the above.
Fom 2007 to 2013 when her book came out, Knox’s tendency was to expand upon and embellish her own explanation for her conniption and fingering of Patrick.
This was despite the fact that her two-day stint on the stand in July 2009 focussed exclusively on this was disbelieved by the Massei judges and by most Italians who watched.
It was also despite the fact that she served three years for this with her guilty verdict confirmed even by Judge Hellmann labeling her a felon for life.
It was also despite the fact that after the 2009 trial those investigators she had impugned at trial sparked new charges still to be faced in a Florence court.
It was also despite the fact that more charges for her 2013 book and her Oggi interview are expected to be added by the chief prosecutor in Bergamo.
Amazingly, she was still digging herself in deeper as late as 2014. By far her longest, most self-serving and most surreal version of the session appeared as Chapter 10 of her book.
This chapter is 20 pages long and consists of page after page after page of invented dialogue. Everybody has long known that the last few pages were Knox’s malicious invention.
That the rest of the pages are too is also dead-certain.
Neither Rita Ficarra’s notes nor Knox’s list of names with maps and notes,one of which she created and both of which were repeatedly testified to right in front of her, are even mentioned anywhere in Knox’s book.
This dishonest dialogue and mass accusation of crimes is what Knox and Linda Kulman give us instead:
Police officer Rita Ficarra slapped her palm against the back of my head, but the shock of the blow, even more than the force, left me dazed. I hadn’t expected to be slapped. I was turning around to yell, “Stop!”””my mouth halfway open””but before I even realized what had happened, I felt another whack, this one above my ear. She was right next to me, leaning over me, her voice as hard as her hand had been. “Stop lying, stop lying,” she insisted.
Stunned, I cried out, “Why are you hitting me?”
“To get your attention,” she said.
I have no idea how many cops were stuffed into the cramped, narrow room. Sometimes there were two, sometimes eight””police coming in and going out, always closing the door behind them. They loomed over me, each yelling the same thing: “You need to remember. You’re lying. Stop lying!”
“I’m telling the truth,” I insisted. “I’m not lying.” I felt like I was suffocating. There was no way out. And still they kept yelling, insinuating.
The authorities I trusted thought I was a liar. But I wasn’t lying. I was using the little energy I still had to show them I was telling the truth. Yet I couldn’t get them to believe me.
Huh? Really? In fact only four were involved. The conversation was low-key. The list of names did emerge. Knox was never yelled at or hit, as her own lawyers publicly confirmed. And Rita Ficarra and others describe some exceptional kindnesses shown to Knox, before and after she spontaneously became disturbed, which at trial Knox confirmed.
Knox and Linda Kulman give us twenty more pages of this mass accusation of crimes, which not one witness confirmed or any court believed, more than enough to occupy the entire session, leaving no time for all the work on that list of names which was the sole point of the session and undeniably exists.
Posted by Our Main Posters on 08/25/14 at 04:44 PM in Defendants in court, Amanda Knox, The officially involved, Police and CSI, Evidence & Witnesses, Hoaxes Knox & team, 15 Single alibi hoax, 16 Interrogation hoax, Hoaxers from 2007, Knox-Marriott PR
Comments
Great article! Thank you. Recently, the 19-year-old American Murderer Heather Mack also complained of police abuse and sexual assault in Bali Indonesia. She first said that it was inmates but then changed her story to it being the police. Her attorney, Michael Elkin, foolishly reported these allegations to the press and now he is barred from traveling to Indonesia for the rest of his life. This is the same guy who tried to project an image of Heather Mack as a ‘victim’ much like the FOA has done with Amanda Knox. Here is the latest on that story:
‘I don’t know how long I can take this’, sobs pregnant teenager accused of mother’s Bali ‘body in suitcase’ murder as she’s put into solitary confinement
Heather Mack’s lawyer reveals the desperate midnight phone call
Mack and boyfriend accused of murdering Shiela von Wiese Mack in Bali and stuffing her body in a suitcase
Chicago lawyer Michael Elkin said she is ‘very scared’ but he can’t go to paradise island to be with her as he could face arrest himself
Claims he’s been told that if he goes to island he may be detained by police for claiming that Mack had been sexually assaulted in jail
Mrs von Wiese Mack’s brother said teen became more trouble after death of husband, Chicago composer James L Mack, in 2006
Posted by Johnny Yen on 08/26/14 at 04:56 PM | #
If possible, could someone please upload this to youtube? It starts in a few hours. Thank you in advance.
From Andrea Vogt:
The unflinching BBC3 documentary about Meredith Kercher’s murder & the #amandaknox trials airs @ 21:00 tonight in Italy.Chan 38/Sky 144
(Google translation of above page)
Distribution: BBC3
With:David Balding, if the same DNA Specialist
Walter Biscotti, himself, Attorney Rudy Guede
Guilia Bongiorno, herself, lawyer for Raffaele Sollecito
Anne Bremner, herself, a friend of Amanda
Sarah Gino, herself, Forensic BiologistIn ABSOLUTE FIRST TV on YELLOW “AMANDA KNOX: GUILTY OR INNOCENT?” An exclusive documentary that reconstructs the main facts about the murder of Perugia through the testimonies of the people involved.
Tuesday, August 26th at 21:00 for the first time hear the audio recording of the interrogation in prison for Amanda Knox, the main protagonist of a terrible incident that took away the breath of 3 nations.
On the night of November 1, 2007, British student Meredith Kercher in Italy for an Erasmus at the University of Perugia, is found dead with her throat cut in her bedroom in the house she shared with other students. The cause of death: hemorrhage as a result of a deep wound to the neck.
For the murder has been convicted by a final expedited the Ivorian citizen Rudy Guede and in the first instance, as accomplices in the murder, the American Amanda Knox and Italian Raffaele Sollecito. This judgment was overturned on appeal with the acquittal of the two “sweethearts”, later re-sentenced by the Supreme Court.
Retrace in detail the judicial process to appeal a judgment of 30 January, all enriched by forensic reconstructions and interviews with the major figures involved in the case not to mention the story of Amanda slanderous accusation connected to Patrick Lumumba initially blamed the murder on the same student and then judged entirely unconnected with the facts.
Posted by Johnny Yen on 08/26/14 at 04:58 PM | #
Hi Johnny
On the top comment there would be an epidemic of such accusations by jailhouse lawyers if they got anywhere. Given that Knox is already facing chanrges that Chapter 10 has to be nuts.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 08/26/14 at 05:17 PM | #
Hi Johnny
On the 2nd comment. That will be the Italian language version of course. Highly recommended of course.
Re YouTube, there is a good chance the report will be bought by a TV network and broadcast in the US, but if it is already all over YouTube and Torrent that lowers the chance of a sale and thus lowers by millions how many will view it. There is certainly great eagerness to see it in the US.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 08/26/14 at 05:20 PM | #
Just got a book to review in my e-mail:
Toxicological Aspects of Drug-Facilitated Crimes
Edited by: Pascal Kintz
Elsevier
Book description
Toxicological Aspects of Drug-Facilitated Crimes provides readers with an overview of the field of DFC: its history, toxicological effects, analysis, interpretation of results, the roles that age, gender and race may play, and clinical presentations of these drugs. The most commonly used drugs in DFC are addressed (alcohol, cannabis, MDMA, and cocaine), as well as an emerging range of pharmaceuticals (benzodiazepines, hypnotics, sedatives, neuroleptics, histamine H1-antagonists, or anesthetics), which are becoming more widely used, but are more difficult to detect. Edited by a world-renowned expert in the field of Forensic and Analytical Toxicology, Pascal Kintz, this book investigates toxicants of emerging concern and brings together a number of experts in the field to address the most recent discoveries on DFC toxicology.
Brings together the latest research on the toxicological analysis of drug-facilitated crimes (DFC), with real-life case studies
Provides up-to-date analytical techniques for determining toxicity levels in blood, urine, and hairCovers all types of toxicants involved in DFC, including alcohol, cannabis, MDMA, and a wide variety of pharmaceuticals.
Posted by Ergon on 08/26/14 at 05:24 PM | #
Sounds really interesting Ergon. Do let us know pertinent points when available…
Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 08/26/14 at 07:13 PM | #
Thank you, Ergon, the toxicological aspects of crimes could be very relevant, and no hard drugs are required for exceptionally grisly attacks. Some may remember the case of Ronald Poppo who was attacked 2 years ago by Rudy Eugene in Florida:
Only marijuana was found in Eugene’s system (the cops shot him dead on the spot, thank goodness, no deranged groupies & strange folk songs for this bugger before his execution no sooner than 2045 or so), although a psychiatrist friend who treats patients for substance/alcohol abuse is still convinced that he was on bath salts (his argument was that the amount needed to induce an abnormally aggressive state is minute - on the order of a couple of milligrams - which is “undetectable” in the lab; I don’t think he is necessarily right).
Posted by Bjorn on 08/26/14 at 07:59 PM | #
Bjorn is right. Do a search here including the “comments” for skunk, which has been mentioned from time to time.
Some skunk (genetically enhanced marijuana) sends paranoia off the charts and is the equivalent of a whole new drug. Bizarre killings like that Bjorn linked to are increasingly turning up.
The BBC sent a reporter to Amsterdam where marjiuana is semi-legal and she smoked her way through some flavors and reported on each result.
There was one there (the last one she tried!) which did induce rampant paranoia in her and she got the fright of her life.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 08/26/14 at 09:31 PM | #
Hi Ergon and SeekingUnderstanding
Wondering what you have to say on substances other than drugs whose deficiencies can cause real harm.
I encounter thousands in my work (economic growth-enhancing processes) and there will always be an anxious or nervous or paranoid or exhausted or even suicidal few, sometimes holding the whole program up.
I usually dont have the time to get into their cases or do more than exchange a few words. But I’ve long explained that we all burn through some key vitamins when we are stressed. Panthothenic acid (B5) is one.
Naicin (B3) is another. Some level of deficiency at least is very widespread. Run low on that and paranoia and various kinds of fear and rage and even depression leading to suicide can really show.
Niacinamide is used to get schizophrenia and adrenal insufficiency under control when taken with other things.
For every one timebomb out there on a bad drug trip, I reckon there are several hundred timebombs out there with their stress vitamins running at empty or low.
I automatically recommend to anyone who says they feel this way to go and try 100 mg of the niacinamide version (it must be niacinamide, which is buffered and stops them turning bright red).
My experience is that at least 3/4 of everybody anxious or paranoid or worse who does this gets relief, sometimes amazing relief.
Knox and most of the enraged Marriott minions seem to me to reveal deficiency symptoms.
Although I sometimes suggest it is because they feel they are being left behind in life, I’d suggest they try niacinamide before doing much else.
That may be the problem of many of them at its core.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 08/26/14 at 10:08 PM | #
‘Niacinamide is used to get schizophrenia and adrenal insufficiency under control when taken with other thing’
Hi Pete….I am aquainted with this - I think all the B vitamins play a crucial role in mental states as well as metabolism. That is useful advice you share.
Another important metabolic consideration is iodine and a well-balanced thyroid - something that can get out of balanced in a life of too much speeding, and driven stress.
Also of course when the body has been fuelled by adrenalin, various processes tend to go on hold (so that one can fight or flee).. Which includes absorption. It’s often whether or not nutrients are absorbed or not that is more crucial than whether they’re actually consumed.
B12 of course is important for anaemia, which can give its own kind of depressiveness and listlessness - essentially adding to negativity.
There ‘s a lot more consideration being given now to the harm that a very high sugar diet can do…and I note that cannabis is renowned (I hear) for giving a sugar craving. People even talk about ‘a sugar high’.
Aside from nutritional considerations, there are the SSRI or Prozac type drugs which are prescribed very easily and readily nowadays, sometimes without proper consideration or for too long etc. they also ought to be monitored carefully at the beginning as the system adjusts, and I don’t think they always are - not here anyway.
And then there’s the general rule that prescription drugs do not mix well with alcohol (especially Prosac) but I know of many cases where this is simply ignored.
There’s a great deal of instability and harm caused by prescription drugs and ‘legal highs’, before one even starts on the illegals….
Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 08/27/14 at 01:03 AM | #
Hi Peter,
Thank you. Sallyoo reported on ORG that it was the same BBC3 documentary entitled “Is Amanda Knox Guilty?” but voiced over in Italian. Thanks again.
Posted by Johnny Yen on 08/27/14 at 02:33 AM | #
On a different but similar note, I read that one of the poor people who had been held hostage by ISIS or Isil said that their captors were ‘on pills’, definitely, and that ‘they wouldn’t be able to do some of the things they do unless they were’.
Likewise, I believe, the Norwegian mass murderer Brevik knowingly took some pills beforehand (I forget which now).
It’s a very worrying happening.
Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 08/27/14 at 09:23 AM | #
Hi SeekingUnderstanding
Unlike EU countries now (because of nefarious drug company lobbying?) the US sees vitamins etc as simply nutritional and so there is no regulation.
The intake around NY is high and well-informed. Health insurance companies are keen on this (and alternative medicine approaches) as prevention of a cure by this means costs little in comparison.
Iodine: right. Our main salt brands sold here all have it.
Fail to absorb: right. B12 can be one, and we have the sublingual type here that dissolve under the tongue.
High sugar: right. NYC tried clamping down on flavored sodas for this reason; failed, but the message is getting out about what sugar can do.
Prozac etc: right. One of the American murders in Italy resulted in an Italian official being quoted as saying Americans often come off those when they get there.
There has been some wondering if Knox came off one of those after she arrived in Europe.
Prescription drugs: Yeah, many are basically poisons, right? “Good poisons” to stir the body to react, but still… Herbs and vitamins are often a better way.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 08/27/14 at 02:09 PM | #
But herbs etc require patience! Often months…though can truly be effective, and avoid a need for operations.
I think preventative medicine is the future : the art of ‘wellness’, which , of course, includes the brain and mind.
With prescription drugs, some of course are amazing, some necessarily very powerful - maybe the dangers start with prolonged use? e.g the affect on the organs such as liver and so on. And of course dependence in the brain. I have heard there is widespread opiate use/misuse in the UK at the moment, among other things.
The EU measures are regrettable, especially for some single, individual businesses, - sad to see. However, thank goodness for the Internet, here - so much can be shared about what has actually worked.
Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 08/27/14 at 03:54 PM | #
“I felt like I was suffocating. There was no way out. And still they kept…”
This shows that when Knox jumped into falsely accusing Patrick, she was, in fact, looking for a way out…
Out of what, one has to ask?
Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 08/27/14 at 04:07 PM | #
Looking at the citations for the book Toxicological Aspects of Drug-Facilitated Crimes by Pascal Kintz reminds me how closely it fit with my theory of the crime written a while back:
“..it is Knox above all, whose contemporaries alleged (on social media) she was ‘self medicating’ with drugs and alcohol. For an undiagnosed personality disorder. My guess is, Narcissistic Personality Disorder with more than a touch of Autism Spectrum.
Recent research also points to drug induced psychosis. My theory of the crime has always been, Amanda Knox orchestrated it all in the throes of a drug induced jealous rage.â€
Posted by Ergon on 08/28/14 at 12:17 AM | #
Commenting is not available in this channel entry.
Where next:
Click here to return to The Top Of The Front PageOr to next entry Knox Interrogation Hoax #12: Hard Proof That In 5-6 Nov Session Knox Merely Built Visitors List
Or to previous entry Legal Timeline Of The Main Case, On Which The Next Ruling By Supreme Court Could Be Final