What Could Well Have Happened On The Night: Killers Attack Meredith 10.13-10.30 PM

Comments

Did Antonio Curatolo, or any of the others notice any possible blood on the suspects that night or did he hear any of the scream?
Everything sounds about right in the timeline & why it could have played out like you desribe.

This is an excellent point tjcchamp. He would surely have heard the scream from there, judging from the photos. It needs someone who has been there to say for sure perhaps. And the blood issue is a good one too. I can’t imagine they would have been free of blood stains at this time.

Excellent piece Brian S, as usual. You really do help marshal all the facts into neat clear order for those of us whose heads begin to spin with it all. Very useful. Timing is all a bit tight isn’t it. But I think you might just have nailed it here.

Good questions. I took the shots. My guess is that any scream from the house would not carry quite as far as the piazza which is

(1) maybe three times the distance from the house that the apartments above the parking facility are,

(2) slightly blocked by the building on the east side of the intersection below the steps where the cars park, 

(3) a busy and noisy place in itself, with cars exiting the old city by three routes and many buses going by.

On the possibility of blood stains, I might get back to you. The piazza and basketball court are not especially well lit at night, though people would be easy enough to recognize.

In contrast the area above the house is lit up almost as brightly as a stadium, what with the street lights and also the huge globes on the parking facility.

Very quiet there too, in contrast.

I still want to know how AK and RS stabbed Meredith, and ran to a piazza, witnessed by the hobo, and no one noticed them covered in blood.  Is it possible to stab someone as violently as reported and the perpetrators close to the vic not have blood evidence all over them?  Everything else points to guilt except that nagging question.

Hi.  I have two questions.  I am confused as to the aborted cell phone calls.  I thought one was at 8:53 to her mother’s house.  This would have been while Meredith was still at her friends house.  Was there other aborted calls after 10:00 or did I get the time wrong?

Also, where were Meredith’s cell phones found (Lana Biscoti’s house) in relation to the park?  Could they have heaved them or would it have to be Rudy?

John Follain reported on March 22 after the trial session an aborted call to Meredith’s mother at 8:56 pm. I believe there was one other call soon after, the one Brian refers to, but will check.

Kermit created Powerpoints to explain the tossing of the phones. The house outside the wall could have been reached in 10 minutes if the city gate was open, and in 15 or 20 minutes if it was closed. Sollecito and Guede both lived near that gate.

[added while Arnold was posting below - he sees things on similar lines] Let me offer an ad-interim response on the question of blood on the defendants as our Europeans all seem to be in bed.

We never posted on all of the Micheli report because it is very raw and painful in parts, and the Kercher family had asked that the trial be closed for this reason. There is a graphic description of Meredith’s struggle based on a LOT of physical evidence (those who have seen all of the autopsy shots tell us they were disturbed for days.)

At the end there, the evidence says, she was on her hands and knees, struggling. A scream, a stab, she falls, and they are out of there in a heartbeat. Maybe NO blood on them if this is what happened, and if there was blood on them it would have been low down. And the park is quite a dark place at night.

Blood spatter – sorry, this is gross

Wow.  You connected dots that I didn’t realize needed connecting.  They were in the park and couldn’t get back to start the staging of the crime scene because of the broken down car.  This is like a dime novel.  Meanwhile, Rudy’s off dancing at a disco.  Then the staging is interrupted by a bomb scare.  OMG, bummer!!

Tony brings up a good point.  I don’t think there needs to be a lot of blood on the perps in a stabbing.  There is a considerable amount of blood dispersed to the surroundings when multiple wounds are inflicted because, after the first one, there is blood on the weapon which then gets spun off as the subsequent blows are delivered.  This is even more true when a longer weapon is used (such as the classic fireplace poker or brass candlestick). 

Meredith had many knife wounds but (and this is really hard for me) they were delivered in short torturous stabs while she was restrained.  These need not create much splatter as they would not be delivered in a sweeping motion. 

The final neck wound did create significant blood loss but much of this, if the scenario is correct, would have occurred after she had been (moved to?) locked in her bedroom to bleed to death.  What is still unknown is whether the knife was left in her neck for her to extract.  If so, there would have been even less blood on the killers.

Btw, anyone interested in how anyone with no history of violence could do this please read Miss Represented’s great articles on this topic.

In a nutshell, a person with no history of violence most likely would not; however, a group acts totally differently than three individuals.  A group feeds on each members actions.  This also helps winnow out the Rudy Guede as sole perp theory. Reading her site was an “aha” moment for me.

Thanks, Arnold. We are turning to the psychology next week when there will be no trial for two weeks, and Miss Represented (who often comments here) has a post introducing her series.

I was told by someone else that the book “Blank Slate” by Steven Pinker is vital reading and I have it. MR has suggested several others. The Strand bookstore on Broadway at 12th Street has the Pinker paperback for under $20. Otherwise, it is a pricey read.

1) Blood stains

Last week, I couldn’t understand why Jovana Popovic was not asked about what clothes AK was wearing, since she was the last reliable witness to see her before the murder.

At night, dark blood stains would not be obvious to the casual observer, but surely Ak and RS would have had to dispose of the clothes?

RS told the police that he couldn’t remember and I think he talked about his ‘confusion’ in his diary?.

Knox’s blood was mixed with Meredith’s in the wash basin, so maybe they washed their hands before fleeing, and didn’t get round to cleaning it before the postal police arrived (There were ‘more important’ traces to be cleaned first, like the footprints).

2) Guede’s Testimony - this Saturday

We all hope that he doesn’t remain silent. I think we will eventually get the truth, since my favorite prosecutor, Vincent Bugliosi, says ’ three people can keep a secret ... but only if two of them are dead’. His record of successful prosecutions was 101 out of 102, if I remember.

3) Lumumba’s Testimony - this Saturday

I was trying to work out what else he can add to what we know, I’ve come up with:

1. When and how much he paid Knox, to help us find out who took Meredith’s money.

2. If and when did he tell Meredith she could have ‘Knox’s job’

4) Psychology

Knox got very emotional when the police scrolled down the numbers on her phone and got to Patrick’s. She said ‘it was him!, it was him!’.

I’d be grateful if Miss Represented could give an opinion on whether this could have been ‘true’ in Knox’s mind, if it was Patrick giving the job to Meredith which triggered everything?.

Thanks Kevin. The mixed blood (never dated for the reasons Nicki explained) was on the bidet in the bathroom by Meredith’s bedroom.

For those who want to decide on each piece of evidence for themselves, there is a shot of the bidet in this post.

On your points 3 and 4 I would like to ask Patrick whether Knox knew she was fired or replaced, and if so from whom.

If Knox heard it from Meredith, as is possible, that shock might have rippled on and on.

Another nagging detail is Knox’s blood mixed with Meredith’s.  I recall one witness talking about a scratch on Knox’s neck or chin, but she was photographed the morning after when the postal police arrived.  She was interviewed by police with Raf a few days later. No one else mentioned seeing a wound on Knox.  Seems if she sustained a wound large enough to mix her blood, it wouldn’t heal so fast.
I’m playing the devil’s advocate here, I still think they’re guilty as hell.

Sorry, I should have said Knox’s DNA was mixed with Meredith’s blood?. The bidet is more likely to be used to wash blood from feet?, perhaps after mopping the floor?.

There doesn’t have to be much of a wound to create a drop or two of blood. Knox’s claim that she had just had her ears pierced was taken by some as enough of an explanation.

Perhaps more to the point is what Judge Micheli remarked and Nicki has explained: there is no way of dating the blood, and so it does not seem to be regarded as important evidence of anything specific to the night.

Not to say this prosecution may not present it anyway but with a new twist… we’ll see. None of the blood evidence has so far been presented.

Hi, first time commenting here.
It occured to me that they could have not only been watching to have an opportunity to move the dark coloured car but also to see if by some miracle Meredith had managed to get out or get some help. The reports are that she took a while to die from her injuries so was possibly still alive when they ran. Maybe they were watching to see if help had been called so would be waiting for police/ambulances to arrive. When they saw no sign of this, and thought they she would be no longer be fighting for life, and the recovery vehicle had gone, they then felt able to go back and alter the crime scene.
It is the hardest part for me that they think Meredith would have taken a long time to die, and that she could’ve been saved. I hope her last moments were thoughts of peace, not fear.

I know the prosecution has to set the stage and lay the groundwork before introducing the evidence that clinches it.  In the movies the police always find skin under the fingernails of the victim or some such.  There must have been a tremendous struggle between 2213 and 2230, does anyone know if the attackers’ fingerprints or DNA would have been on the body?  As Tony has pointed out, Amanda’s blood could very well have been there simply from her having lived there. 

Also, if the defense knew there was such evidence, wouldn’t they have thrown in the towel?

Guede’s appeal has not come to pass yet so I wouldn’t expect to much from him.  On the other hand, If AK and RS were involved, I am sure it would frost his pumpkin if he was the only one to serve any time.

I didn’t know where to comment on this but where did the article about the hair in Merediths hand go? I just googled it and a few articles came up from the weeks after the murder but I’ve not heard anything about the hair since- surely it would be a very good clue as to who killed her? Does anyone know any more of this? Please feel free remove my comment if its not in the right place or irrelevant.

Ginny, the hair story was erroneously thrown up by Google News as a new one, when it actually wasn’t, so we explained and eventually hid the post. Will it surface in the evidence at trial? We don’t know, but we’ve had a few surprises since the trial started, so I guess we need to stay tuned.

Thank you for clearing that up! Here’s hoping it will implicate someone beyond all reasonible doubt.

*reasonable
(So embarrassed!!)

Where next:

Or to next entry The Steel Stairs That Suspiciously Clanged On The Night ADD SHOT

Or to previous entry The Locations That Various Witnesses Have Been Talking About EDIT ADD SHOTS