Monday, November 29, 2010
Explaining The Massei Report: The Timeline For Events Before, During, And After The Night #1
Posted by catnip
The Masssei Timeline To Midnight 1 Nov
These two posts list all of the events precisely timed in the Massei Report. Page numbers shown in brackets are those in the original Italian version.
This timeline will be reposted over on the TJMK Massei Report summaries and highlights page as we populate that page further starting this week.
There are plenty of mentions of imprecise occasions and general time periods, such as when Rudy told Giorgio Cocciaretto about liking Amanda (p26) or when lawyer Palazzoli found out their stolen computer had been recovered in Milan (p33), but they are not listed here.
nts_before_during_2/”>Post #2
2002
Raffaele Sollecito tranfers from his home town Giovinazzo to Perugia to study Computer Science; he takes up lodgings at the ONAOSI halls until 2005; he is a taciturn and introverted student; the college masters are surprised by a bestiality porn video he has; they place him under monitor watch; his father will testify that he is in the habit of carrying a small knife around in his pocket, for carving bark and scuplting small objects (p50).
2006
Giacomo Silenzi arrives in Perugia; takes up residence in the downstairs flat at No 7, Via della Pergola (p25).
2007
August
Filomena Romanelli and Laura Mezzetti move into the cottage at Via della Pergola, occupying two rooms on the upper storey; because there is a second bathroom, and another two rooms, they start searching for flatmates to share the 1200 euro per month rent (p15).
Amanda Knox has saved up enough and departs the United States; she goes to Germany (p50).
A few months before October
Raffaele Sollecito has a brief fling, a couple of days, with a girl from Brindisi (p50).
End of August to beginning of September
Amanda arrives in Perugia with her sister; finds the cottage; after going back to Germany and returning to Perugia, she will begin studying: “a good and diligent student” says her teacher Antonella Negri (p50).
1 September
Meredith departs for Perugia to start her ERASMUS courses; she chose Perugia because it is small and easily reachable from the airport; at first she stays in a hotel (p10).
2 September 2007
Sophie Purton meets Meredith; they hit it off immediately and are soon visiting each other daily; Sophie later testifies that Meredith’s relationship with Amanda is amicable even though some of Amanda’s habits are annoying (p23).
Early September 2007
Amanda arrives and says she is interested in the cottage; she takes the room between Filomena and what will become Meredith’s room, then departs for a bit to visit an aunt in Germany (p15).
Mid September 2007
Meredith arrives at the cottage, and takes the room furthest from the front door, the one facing the countryside and next to the second bathroom (p15).
28 September 2007
Meredith returns home to get warmer clothes; she returns to Perugia on 1 October (p10).
End September ““ Beginning October 2007
Robyn Butterworth arrives in Perugia; takes up residence in Via Bontempi; immediately gets to know Meredith (p20).
October? 2007
Patrick Lumumba hires Amanda Knox to work in his bar, Le Chic; at first it is every day, starting at around 21:30-220:00, then it becomes twice a week, Tuesday and Thursday (p50).
Mid-October 2007
Giacomo Silenzi from the flat downstairs begins a romantic relationship with Meredith after a night out at the Red Zone club; Rudy expresses an interest in Amanda to Giacomo, Marco, and Stefano when visiting in the downstairs flat; Amanda is also there; on another occasion, Giacomo remembers Rudy, who had been drinking, asking, when they were all at a pub before going home, whether Amanda was already engaged ““ this was before Amanda had met Raffaele (pp25-26).
13 October 2007
Overnight, someone breaks into the law offices of Paolo Brocchi and Matteo Palazzoli by smashing a window with a big enough rock; there are pieces of glass everywhere on the floor, and their clothing has been tossed on top of the glass; initial inspection reveals a computer, a mobile phone, some USB memory keys, and a portable printer have been taken (p33).
Third Weekend of October 2007
Amy Frost goes to the Red Zone disco with Amanda (p22).
25 October 2007
Amanda and Raffaele meet for the first time. The relationship is intense; Raffaele treats and cuddles Amanda “as if she were a little girl” says his father; every day when his father called, and often multiple times during the same day, Raffaele talked about Amanda (pp50-51).
26 October 2007
Filomena meets Amanda’s boyfriend Raffaele for the first time; it is the day after Amanda and Raffaele first met (p15); it is Laura who tells her that he is a friend of Amanda’s; Filomena sees him another two or three times at the cottage; Laura remembers seeing Raffaele at the cottage around four times, and that in the coming days Amanda will often sleep at Raffaele’s: “they were continuosly hugging each other”, Laura remembers, “Raffaele was especially tender and sometimes, to me, seemed almost a bit possessive” (p51).
End October 2007
The Sunday after the Red Zone night where Giacomo and Meredith begin their relationship, Rudy drops around for a visit to the boys’ flat downstairs, univited; it is the day of the Grand Prix; that night, Giacomo and Meredith spend the night in his room; Amanda spends the night with Daniele in the upstairs flat, in Amanda’s room, according to what Daniele tells Giacomo (p26).
Stefano Bonassi, one of the four boys in the downstairs flat, who has been in Perugia for four years studying, first meets Raffaele Sollecito (p26).
27 October 2007, Saturday
Morning: Maria Antonietta Salvadori Del Prato Titone, kindergarten manager in Milan, finds Rudy at the Via Plinio kindergarten coming out of her office; there were no signs of a break-in; in Rudy’s backpack there is computer; the police, when called, ask him to empty his backpack: there is a 40cm-long kitchen knife, a set of keys, a woman’s gold watch; a little hammer like those emergency ones for breaking glass that are on the buses; the police tell her the computer was stolen from lawyers in Perugia; Rudy says he was told the kindergarten was a doss-house and paid a 50 euro fee to his informant; the kitchen knife was in the kitchen, the door to which was unlocked (pp32-33).
28 October 2007, a Sunday
22:36 The Amelie.avi media file finishes downloading via P2P onto Raffaele’s MacBookPro laptop (p326).
29 October 2007
The last day Giacomo Silenzi sees Meredith alive: before departing for the holidays, he asks Meredith to water his marijuana plants; only he and Stefano Bonassi remain in the downstairs flat because of the holidays; the other two boys in the downstairs flat have already departed (p25).
A co-worker at the Brocchi and Palazzoli law offices calls Paolo Brocchi to say that in the corridor there’s a person who says he was found with the goods in Milan, but says he purchased them legitimately; Brocchi later recognises the person as Rudy (p33).
30 October 2007
Returning home in the late afternoon after work, Filomena has a long gossip with Meredith (p15).
31 October 2007
Morning: Jovana Popovic’s mother tells her that the next day she will send a suitcase by bus so that it will arrive by midnight (p52).
Afternoon Sophie says Meredith sent her an SMS saying that she (Meredith) was on her way downstairs to the boys’ apartment to water the marijuana plants (p23).
18:27:50 Meredith’s Italian phone (the Motorola Vodaphone loaned to her by Filomena) sends an SMS to phone xx1724 through the Piazza Luppatelli sector 7 cell covering Via della Pergola and receives a reply two minutes later through the same cell at 18:29:05 (p338, p347).
22:14 Raffaele’s landline receives a call from his father, 44 seconds (p343).
Around 22:30 Marta Nieto and Carolina Martin, who live in the flat above Rudy in Via del Canerino, meet Rudy at their friend Adriana Molina’s place in Via Campo di Battaglia; there are about 30 people there; they party until around midnight, then go to another Spanish friend’s place, and then on to the Domus club; Rudy is with them all the time; the only one they see him dancing with is a girl with long blonde hair (p29).
At night: For Halloween, Meredith, Robyn, Amy, Rachel, Sophie, Nathalie, Lina and Monic dine together; then go to the Merlin and, later, the Domus, finally returning home about 4-5am; Amy remembers she and Robyn accompanied Meredith to the basktball courts in Piazza Grimana; Robyn remembers Amanda having asked Meredith to go out together (pp21-22).
01 November 2007
00:00:39 Raffaele’s phone makes an outgoing call (p341).
00:02:41 Raffaele uses his landline and calls his father for 262 seconds (p343).
00:41:49 Amanda makes an outgoing call to an unidentified person, 20 seconds (p345).
00:57 Raffaele’s phone receives an incoming SMS (p341).
00:57:20 Amanda, located somewhere in the city centre, sends an SMS to Raffaele to meet up with him at his house (p345).
01:04:48 Amanda’s phone receives an incoming call, 53 seconds, from landline xxx789.
During the day Before leaving the cottage to go to her boyfriend’s, and needing to change her clothes, Filomena asks Amanda’s help in wrapping a birthday present; Filomena is going with her boyfriend Marco to Luca Altieri’s house for his birthday party; Amanda is having breakfast and says Meredith is asleep in her room; for the rest of the day and the following night, Filomena is at her boyfriend’s (pp15-16).
Filomena remembers pulling the shutters closed on her window, as much as possible due to the swollen wood (p36).
Afternoon The film Stardust is downloaded via P2P onto Raffaele’s laptop (p331). Six files were requested; the first three downloaded were played, and the other requests were cancelled (p332).
Meredith and her mother talk on the phone for the last time; Meredith says she is planning to return home on 9 November for her mother’s birthday on the 11th (p10).
Meredith has a suitcase ready full of Perugian chocolate, intended as a gift to her sister Stephanie (pp10-11).
14:25 Raffaele’s phone has an incoming call, 58 seconds long (p341).
14:31:33 Meredith’s English phone, a Sony Ericsson, has a call via cell 25620 covering Via della Pergola; this call and the calls up until 15:55:57 also have their details recorded in the phone’s memory (p336, p349)
15:01:58 Meredith’s English phone has a call via cell 25621 covering Via della Pergola (p337)
15:48:56 Meredith’s English phone has a call via cell 25621 covering Via della Pergola (p337)
15:55:03 Meredith’s English phone has a call via cell 25621 covering Via della Pergola (p337)
15:55:57 Meredith’s English phone has a call via cell 25621 covering Via della Pergola (p337)
Around 16:00 Meredith arrives at Robyn’s place; with Amy and Sophie, they have a pizza dinner, maybe around 18:00, then look at the Halloween photos on the computer, then watch a film, halfway through the film they have an apple crumble with ice cream, and call it a night before 21:00 (p21).
16:50 Raffaele’s phone has an incoming call, from his father, 214 seconds long (p341).
16:56 Raffaele’s phone has an another incoming call from his father, 64 seconds long (p341).
Around 17:45 Jovana Popovic passes by Raffaele’s house to ask him for a lift to the bus station; Amanda opens the door and Raffaele is there (p52).
Around 18:00 The pizza dinner at Robyn’s place begins (p21).
18:27:15 The film file Amelie.avi begins playing via the VLC application on Raffaele’s MacBookPro laptop (p327).
20:18:12 Amanda, via a cell that does not cover Raffaele’s home, receives an SMS from Patrick Lumumba asking her not to come in to work that evening (p345). Amanda is located inside a phone cell which covers her route to Lumumba’s pub (p345).
20:20 Jovana Popovic’s lecture at the Three Arches ends; her mother had called to say that she was unable to send the suitcases because the driver refused to take them; Jovana starts walking to Raffaele’s to tell him she no longer needs a lift to the station (p53).
20:35:48 Amanda, located in Corso Garibaldi or environs, sends an SMS in response to Patrick’s (p345). No further activity occurs on Amanda’s phone for the rest of the day; Amanda declared during the hearings that she switched her phone off when she got back to Raffaele’s house because she was happy not to go into work and be able to spend the night with her boyfriend (p345).
Around 20:40 Jovana Popovic arrives at Raffaele’s to tell him about the lift; Amanda opens the door and tells her that Raffaele is in the bathroom (p53).
20:42:56 Raffaele’s phone has a call, and is located in Corso Garibaldi (p339). The call is from his father, who has just come out of the movie theatre and recommends the film; Raffaele mentions the leaking pipe in the kitchen to him; Amanda and Raffaele must therefore have finished dinner around this time (p341, p384). Raffaele tells his father that he is with Amanda, and will be with her the following day as well, having in fact organised a trip to Gubbio; he mentions noticing the water leak while he was washing the dishes (p52).
20:56 Meredith’s English phone recorded details of an attempt for an outgoing call “home”, to her mother (p350).
Around 21:00 Meredith returns home to the cottage (p388), leaving Robyn and Amy’s place with Sophie (p21); Sophie remembers waving goodbye to Meredith at 20:55 because at 21:00 there was a program on that she had to watch (p24).
Around 21:30 ““ 22:00 Antonio Curatolo, a reliable witness, while reading the Espresso newspaper, notices Amanda and Raffaele in the little square in front of the University for Foreigners; he knows each of them from before, by sight; he notices them again around 23:00 (p383).
21:10:32 The film file Amelie.avi closes on Raffaele’s MacBookPro laptop, from either being stopped, or reaching the end of the file (p327). Raffaele’s computer remains connected to the Net throughout the night and only 11 files are created, at regular intervals, by either the operating system (Mac OS X) or within the Mozilla Firefox browser cache; the P2P service also remains active (p328). The logs from Raffaele’s service provider, FastWeb, show no web page retrieval requests during this time period (p330).
21:58 Meredith’s English phone recorded details of an attempt to call Voicemail; no phone traffic was generated according to the phone provider’s records, as would be expected if the caller disconnected before the welcome message finished, consistent with a parsimonious student (p350, p352, p353).
Around 22:00 Mrs Lana recieves a threatening phone call advising her not to use the toilet because there’s a bomb. She immediately notifies the police, who arrive and find nothing; the call is a hoax; Mrs Lana and her husband are asked to come to the police station the following morning to report the phone call (p12).
22:00 Meredith’s English phone composed the number for “Abbey” (an English bank), the first entry in the contacts list, but since the international prefix was left off, the call did not connect; the roaming profile provider Wind captured the details, the phone’s memory did not (p350, p353).
22:13:19 In her last call for the day, Meredith’s English phone does a 9-second GPRS connection to IP address 10.205.46.41, via cell 30064, covering Via della Pergola and which does not cover Via Sperandio (p337, p350). This might have been an MMS message from its size, 4708 bytes received, 2721 bytes sent; alternatively, it may have been a brief WAP Internet connection, but, based on the byte traffic, with no fruitful interaction occuring; alternative three, it was an unintended WAP connection with a delayed disconnection. Since the MMS was not stored in the phone’s memory, the Court inferred that Meredith simply deleted it without opening it (p351, p352, p353)
Around 23:00 Antonio Curatolo, on his park bench, again notices Amanda and Raffaele in Piazza Grimana; he sees Raffaele going to the railing and looking through it, to where the Via della Pergola driveway gate is located (p384).
Around 23:00 The circumstances point towards Amanda, with Raffaele in tow, letting inside Rudy the cottage at Via della Pergola at this time (p384, p389). It would have been immediately obvious that Meredith was home: her door unlocked as usual, probably reading or studying, and, because of the blood and traces on her clothes, and her top being rolled up, she was still dressed, and therefore awake; plus also the wounds show she wasn’t in bed when the attack occurred (p389).
23:14 Raffaele’s father sends him an SMS, which is received on Raffaele’s phone the following morning at 06:02 (p340).
To be continued in
Posted by catnip on 11/29/10 at 08:00 AM in Evidence & Witnesses, Various timelines, Faked breakin, Trials 2008 & 2009, Massei prosecution, The Massei Report, Hoaxes against Italy, 6 No staging hoax, Hoaxes re Guede, 33 Sole attacker hoax
Comments
By Storm Roberts (Innai)
Catnip,
Thank you.
It is very useful to see all the points made in the Massei Report pulled together into a timeline - it gives additional clarity and allows one to really understand the framework into which all the pieces of evidence and testimony fit.
Thank you.
Posted by Nolongeramember on 11/30/10 at 09:24 AM | #
By Storm Roberts (Innai)
NB. Catnip’s page reference’s are to the original Italian Massei Report, not the English translation.
Posted by Nolongeramember on 11/30/10 at 09:36 AM | #
I echo Innai. It is sobering to be reminded how relatively short the time scale here is. A mere 6 weeks from Meredith’s arrival at the cottage. Also Rudy’s petty thieving in the two weeks running up. During the same time frame as his thieving Rudy is visiting the boys below, perhaps welcome because he brings drugs, and acquainting himself with Amanda as her pusher.
One conjectures whether, in this relationship, he brags about his previous exploits with her at some point and whether this plants the seeds of an idea in her and Raffaele’s minds.
Posted by James Raper on 11/30/10 at 12:07 PM | #
Reading through the timeline again reminds me of my first impression: This murder was definitely premeditated. It did not happen at the spur of the moment. There was severe loathing going on in Amanda’s head. She was on a roll and manipulating two accomplices to help her teach someone a lesson. I believe the 20:18 SMS from Patrick triggered the madness in Amanda. She had approximately 3 hours to cool down. Yet, she followed through with her plan, fuelled no doubt by extreme anger. I suspect drugs played a minor role. She had enough of her own natural chemicals in her brain that were on a mission to destroy.
Posted by Terence on 11/30/10 at 12:47 PM | #
Outstanding work, Catnip. Ahh, the devil is in the details. It is reading this cohesive timeline, noting their discrepencies, that one realizes how many times they were tripped up. They just never imagined that, as Raff called them…* The stupid police* would want to know times, anything unusual, etc. Even if both were fluent in a mutual language, they would have made many missteps. For the simple reason, that they are guilty. Amanda’s belief that she could flirt, *oopla* her way to carrying on with her life, Raff thinking he was going to be fine, A Doctor’s son, and all, didn’t stop the police from doing their job. The only unbelievable thing to me, is how they didn’t slap the bejesus out of Amanda.
Posted by capealadin on 11/30/10 at 02:26 PM | #
Awesome work, catnip! Really great job in making this very detailed and coherent timeline.
As well as showing what happened when, it reveals some very telling details as others have said, not least that Guede knew the boys downstairs and Knox too. (I don’t think it’s proved that he was her source of drugs, though - does anyone know more about that?)
It also shows what an active social life Meredith had with her peers and how much she was part of a network of friends all studying together in Perugia. Knox was not part of that - Meredith went out on Halloween for a great time with her friends, and Knox was left out despite asking to come. I think that says something about the relationship between the two. Knox was ostensibly in the same position as Meredith and her friends - an English-speaking student - yet she was not part of the gang.
I do think this crime was premeditated - at least, to seriously frighten Meredith and “teach her a lesson”. I believe Knox was burning with jealousy about Meredith and wanted to play a vicious prank on her, involve her in a sex game with Guede. Given Sollecito’s penchant for violent porn and interest in combat knives and serial killers, and Knox’s interest in writing violent rape stories, I can’t believe these topics didn’t come up in conversation between the two.
Posted by lilly on 11/30/10 at 03:06 PM | #
Hey, I’ve read the Massei-Report and I#m not that convinced. I think Amanda and Raffaele are guilty in some way but the evidence is really thin.
Especially I think the phonecalls from Meredith mobile were definitely unintended “butt-calls”. If you sit on your mobile it will call the first entry of the list, or it will try to connect to the Internet/WAP-connection. I think the assault took place around 22:00h. And there never was an MMS.
Read p.326. The conclusions are against common sense! That does not mean that AK and RS are not the killers.
Posted by Mikaza on 11/30/10 at 04:29 PM | #
End of October:
‘Amanda spends the night with Daniele in the upstairs flat, in Amanda’s room, according to what Daniele tells Giacomo’ (p26).
Is it known if Amanda Knox disputes this methinks.
What happened to the “two lovebirds” Anne Bremner and the FOA constantly trumpet, I wonder.
She had only just met Sollecito; slept with him the same night and as Laura remembers “they were continuosly hugging each other” when she first met knifeboy herself as quoted above.
Nice girl Amanda.
Perhaps a very angry and jealous Sollecito was present on the night Meredith lost her life.
A weak and easily manipulated person indeed, and easy prey for Amanda Knox.
Posted by Black Dog on 11/30/10 at 04:44 PM | #
very helpful, catnip. thanks.
Posted by mojo on 11/30/10 at 05:45 PM | #
As lilly noted, Meredith immediately had a group of girlfriends, and Amanda apparently did not. I wonder if this added to Amanda’s increasing anger toward Meredith. The british girls were probably polite and nice to Amanda, but she was not part of the club. She seemed lonely, and along came Raffaele - who could have ever guessed what they would come up with, and in such a short time.
Posted by Mechele on 11/30/10 at 07:16 PM | #
Can anyone who has actually visited the cottage and its vicinity help me with this query. The situation with the broken down car and breakdown truck lasted at least from 10.30-11.15pm and those attendant testified that no one was seen coming or going from the cottage, which was in apparent darkness. Would it definitely not have been possible for anyone to enter or leave via the gate during that time period without being seen? Puzzled also why they said cottage in total darkness.
Posted by Lola on 11/30/10 at 07:49 PM | #
Hi Mikaza,
The evidence against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito is overwhelming.
Sollecito left an abundant amount of his DNA on Meredith’s bra clasp, the bloody footprint on the blue bathmat matched the precise characteristics of his foot, his bare bloody footprint in the hallway was revealed by luminol, the murder weapon was found at his apartment, he gave three different alibis which all turned out to be false and he has repeatedly lied through his teeth to the police.
Amanda Knox’s DNA was found on the handle of the murder weapon, she tracked Meredith’s blood into the bathroom, the hallway, Filomena’s room and her own room, her bare bloody footprints in the hallway were revealed by luminol, there were five instances of her DNA mixed with Meredith’s blood in three different locations in the cottage, she voluntarily admitted that she was involved in Meredith’s murder, and she also gave multiple conflicting alibis and repeatedly told the police a pack of lies. Further
Posted by The Machine on 11/30/10 at 07:52 PM | #
Thank you catnip for this very good day by day/step by step exposé.! I know I did that with several points in emails received at the time of a dispute, and it helped a lot to see the contradictions. But I know it takes time!
Amanda was, back home, the sweet angel in her mother’s eyes. The prettiest, the smartest, the sweetest, the most popular etc… This worked in her neighborhood only. But she did not know.
Once abroad, far from a supporting family like in Germany, her sister back in the States, suddenly our delicious angel is NOT popular. She is NOT the smartest, the prettiest. Meredith has even appeared on a show… How unbearable is that!!!?
Meredith has friends, does things with them and does not care to do anything with her anymore. Anymore. She knows why, of course. They certainly had a disagreement, it is not just that Meredith stopped talking to her without having a word about what it was about. She knew.
And she was furious. She had LOST someone’s admiration. Somebody did not like her… Amanda has never been faced with the fact that who she was was not always liked. Of course, she complained about Meredith’s attitude to Raffaele who, not being very popular himself, is more that ready to go and seek revenge with her damzel in distress.
The motive is here, big as her lies. Jealousy. Rage. Frustration. And dope.
Posted by Patou on 11/30/10 at 09:13 PM | #
By Storm Roberts (Innai)
Black Dog,
I am not sure that the night with Daniele was after Knox met Sollecito, it could well have been before - and I personally think it was, as witness observations suggest Knox and Sollecito were inseperable.
The term “the end of October” is quite imprecise - I would take it to mean from 20th onwards i.e. the last third of the month.
Mikaza,
I presume you are referring to the translation page 326, this is the start of five pages discussing Meredith’s phones and includes various hypotheses including some from the defence, and the Court concludes that Meredith could have been playing absent mindedly with her phone and, with regards to the voicemail call and MMS connection, considering her prudent use of the telephone during times when the call rates were lower, it was considered she may have disconnected prior to incurring charges.
As Machine notes above, Knox and Sollecito were convicted based on lots of points of evidence. With regards to the time Meredith died the evidence as a whole must be considered, not merely the telephone records of the victim’s phones. The Court concluded, after considering all the evidence that Meredith died shortly after 23.30.
Regarding Lilly and Mechele’s point re the network of friends Meredith made, I can only say, that, as a former Eurasmus student I agree with the friend of Meredith’s who said that, when you go to study abroad, you make firm friends fast. You do, you need the support and help good friends can offer. These are friends for life.
Looking at the mitigating circumstances Judge Massei considered that Knox was lacking the support of her family and that got me wondering why?
Meredith and her friends clearly found the support they needed - Meredith clearly had concerns about her family, particularly her mother’s state of health, and spoke with her friends to gain reassurance and emotional support, she also had practical support from these friends (sharing books, walking together part of the way home at night etc). What prevented Knox establishing such a group of friends to support her? Was it her lack of course structure and felow US students from her home University? Was it her need to work to get the Euros rolling in taking all her time? Or was it Amanda being Amanda? Finding out why Knox lacked support might very well have led to something I could accept as a genuine mitigating factor - could maybe have started asking why Knox came to Italy looking for a place to live supported by her younger sister.
Posted by Nolongeramember on 11/30/10 at 09:18 PM | #
Innai,
Yes, it is easily checkable.
The Brazilian Grand Prix took place on the 21st Oct in Brazil.
Kimi Raikkonen won it.
Posted by Black Dog on 11/30/10 at 10:06 PM | #
[Hammerite’s comment is hiddden as by popular demand he will post it thursday as a main post.]
Hammerite: “It is the job of the defence legal team to say that they have turned a corner in terms of exonerating their clients. However turning a corner is not such a big deal when you are right bang in the middle of a maze. The sheer volume of evidence that exists and the undeniable interconnections that links it all to AK & RS constitutes that maze; someone should remind their supporters that you can turn many corners in a maze and still not get out.”
What a great metaphor, Hammerite.
Another metaphor that really summarized the Massei report for me as I read it was the idea of a colored-glass collage, forming a picture. My sister, when she was young, made such a collage. It showed a shepherd herding a few sheep on a hillside, with the grass, the hills, and the sky. It was somewhat impressionistic. You could remove one or two small pieces of the colored glass here or there from the picture, and it would still show a shepherd herding his sheep on a hillside.
That was truly the image I had when reading the Massei report. It ties everything into a coherent picture. You could, if you had to, throw out a piece here or there, and the overall picture still shows the guilt of the defendants.
Posted by Earthling on 12/01/10 at 05:58 AM | #
[Hammerite’s comment is hiddden as by popular demand he will post it thursday as a main post.]
Hammerite,
Thank you for your well-considered comment. The clarity and intelligence is much appreciated in the midst of all the noise generated by the behind-the-curtain machinations of the PR campaign.
Posted by wayra on 12/01/10 at 06:05 AM | #
The front page of one of the American tabloids recently told me that Hillary Clinton would be stepping down from her post as Sec of State to play nurse to her dying husband, Bill. She hasn’t stepped down ( or, perhaps she has, and has been replaced by a stunt double?) but I thought that maybe Bill’s terminal illness was the real reason she couldn’t take the time to step up on behalf of Amanda. Family must naturally come first.
Haven’t seen Knox’s face on the front of a magazine recently (for the very reason mentioned by the very astute Hammerite…old news is no news..) but plenty enough people believe that if they read it on the newsstand—or see it on trash TV—it’s simply got to be true!
Ta, Catnip for the timeline summaries, and to all of you who have stayed on top of the details so religiously. It is frustrating that the phone logs can’t pull up precisely who each and every one of those calls went to.
Re: Guede; I really get the impression that he was a hopeless kleptomaniac, that he could not help pilfering objects that presented themselves to him. Makes it seem obvious that he wasn’t the one who tossed FR’s room, as he wouldn’t have found it possible to resist taking something. I agree that he must have bragged about his prior burglary exploits, and that is where AK got the expert advise.
Posted by mimi on 12/01/10 at 06:10 AM | #
I’ve been following this case for a long time - like most people here - and I have never been able to put together in my mind what may have happened.
On that front this timeline was very very helpful - thank you catnip!!
Is it possible that Amanda was on the way to work - as the cell coverage suggests - when she received the message from Patrick. She goes back to Raff’s house in a foul mood, probably thinking that Patrick has asked Meredith to go to work in her place.
Raff and Amanda get high - and her imagination runs wild. They decide to go over trash the house and scare Meredith when she gets back from work.
Maybe and this is all my speculation - Raff and Amanda were waiting in the square (looking at the house per Curalto’s testimony) to see when Meredith would go home (turn on the lights)... (also the broken car said the house was dark - maybe Meredith was doing something on the other side of the house). Or maybe they were waiting for the broken down car to leave…
In any event - they see Rudy and he says he will join in on this scare session prank - maybe to impress Amanda??!?
In the cottage things obviously get out of control, to say the least.
Maybe Meredith tells them that their joke/prank is NOT funny and that she will get Amanda kicked out of the house (or something to that effect). Amanda’s email to her friends the days after the murder show that she was very upset that they had to find a new place to rent - in fact thats what concerns her most! So no doubt her reaction to such a statement from Meredith would be severe!
I still cant understand the sexual assault part! I remember something in the Michelli Report about her clothes being taken off - after the murder. Did this get disproved in the actual trial?
Posted by Giselle on 12/01/10 at 10:55 AM | #
Giselle,
The clothes being taken off was not disproved - quite the reverse in fact.
It reads horribly but the blood spray patterns on poor Merediths chest proved beyond any shred of a doubt that she was dressed when she died.
There was also an imprint of her bra strap in her own blood on the floor and we all know her lifeless body was found on that day with her bra at her feet.
Posted by Black Dog on 12/01/10 at 01:52 PM | #
Black Dog
Thank you for your response. Maybe I am wrong but this was a major factor for Michelli decision and the Massei Report did not focus on this. In my opinion it is one of the gravest facts that proves Knox was the perpetrator - who else would go back to the house to stage the sexual assault!?
Posted by Giselle on 12/01/10 at 02:58 PM | #
Giselle,
Absolutely.
We must not forget Knox and her partner in crime Sollecito were also found guilty and sentenced for simulating a crime.
Guede wasn’t and this fact is significant.
You could take the knife away from this crime and Knox would still be found guilty. There are far too many things that point to her guilt; she alone links all the many questionable things together, everything points to her.
House - Knox
Victim - Knox friend
Guede - Knox friend
Lumumba - Knox employer
Sollecito - Knox boyfriend
Discovery of crime - Knox
- and on and on and on, you could go on forever.
Posted by Black Dog on 12/01/10 at 03:22 PM | #
@ Giselle
It also proves that this was not a lone wolf attack by a random intruder but that someone who had insider knowledge of the housemates (i.e. knew they were all away and would not come back home suddenly that night.)
Quite apart from the fact that the physical evidence shows that a single person could not have inflicted all the injuries poor Meredith received and apart from the DNA evidence against Knox and Sollecito - who else but Knox knew that nobody would be home, so it was safe to spend a lot of time staging crime scenes and cleaning up?
It also proves that the perpetrator, or one of them, was extremely cunning. It’s upsetting to think about it, but who would come up with the cruel and nasty plan of trying to stage a rape scene? What for? Only to point evidence away from her. That’s just one reason why I don’t credit Knox with a molecule of remorse in covering poor Meredith with a duvet.
I cannot imagine the defense team will have even the slightest chance of trying (again) to pin the crime on Guede as a lone perp. Again, even apart from the weight of all the other evidence - for goodness’ sake, he was seen by several witnesses at a nightclub after the murder. When could he have taken such a huge risk of going back, cleaning up, and moving the crime scene around?
Posted by lilly on 12/01/10 at 03:28 PM | #
Black Dog
But the Massei report only discussed the staged break-in and not the staged sexual assault… why?
@lily
Yes, I also think its interesting that this will be Guede’s last appeal - will he sing!? I think his appeal date is soon as well, isnt it?
Posted by Giselle on 12/01/10 at 04:51 PM | #
Giselle,
I think because they ruled that Guede undoubtedly sexually assaulted Meredith.
I believe Knox and Sollecito, having witnessed Guede digitally violate Meredith and perhaps attempt rape then decided to make it look like a full on sexual assault and rape, with their full knowledge of all the evidence of his presence at the crime scene. I don’t know but this may come under the umbrella of the simulation of a crime conviction.
They thought nobody would ever point the finger of suspicion at them.
Knox knew nobody would be home for a while so they had a time window to scrub up and do the staged break in and partial clean up, carefully leaving Guede all over the house.
Knox herself in her email to her friends (if I remember rightly) did indeed mention that the police cannot think it was her that did it as Meredith was sexually assaulted/raped.
Posted by Black Dog on 12/01/10 at 05:19 PM | #
Black Dog
But the Massei report only discussed the staged break-in and not the staged sexual assault… why?
@lily
Yes, I also think its interesting that this will be Guede’s last appeal - will he sing!? I think his appeal date is soon as well, isnt it?
Posted by Giselle on 12/01/10 at 06:01 PM | #
Black Dog says, “I believe Knox and Sollecito, having witnessed Guede digitally violate Meredith and perhaps attempt rape, then decided to make it look like a full on sexual assault and rape…”
I don’t understand what difference it would make if it was a “full-on assault and rape” rather than just an “attempted rape”. It was the knife that killed her, so the degree of the rape shouldn’t change anything, should it?
The rape is the explanation for the knife. The rape is supposed to be Rudy’s “motive”. We don’t know what Amanda’s motive was, but if Rudy assaulted Meredith, whether fully or partially, that should be good enough to explain the knife.
According to James Raper’s analysis a few days ago, Amanda and Raffael may have stolen Meredith’s money in the afternoon, and then invited Rudy to the house in the evening so they could shift the blame for the missing money onto him. They may have manipulated Rudy into coming by presenting him with the idea of Meredith being “available”.
But I don’t really understand how they managed to get Rudy to assault Meredith, if that was their plan. A lot of people here have the impression that they manipulated Rudy and were going to let him take the blame for everything—the missing money, the assault and the killing, but if Rudy assaulted Meredith he must have done it of his own free will.
I find it very difficult to understand exactly what could have gone on.
According to the Massei report, they may have been in bare feet because they had been in bed in the next room, and then came in to take Rudy’s side in the struggle that had started between Rudy and Meredith.
But if they “staged” the sexual assault, then what was their “real” intention? I don’t see the necessity of doctoring the evidence of a “partial” sexual assault.
Posted by frenchriviera on 12/01/10 at 06:53 PM | #
What I mean is, what was their intention?—to cover up the theft of Meredith’s money, to assault Meredith to “teach her a lesson” because Amanda was feeling bitter about things, or to actually kill her?
If their intention was to merely cover up the theft of the money, then perhaps Rudy is to blame for escalating things.
If their intention was to humiliate Meredith and teach her a lesson, then they managed to get Rudy to do the dirty work for them, until it got out of hand and went too far.
Or if their intention was to actually kill her, they managed to make it look like it started with an assault by Rudy.
Posted by frenchriviera on 12/01/10 at 07:21 PM | #
Black Dog
I dont remember reading that in Knox’ email (but perhaps she did) - she was trying to exonerate herself in every way possible in that email (interestingly before anyone had accused her).
But it doesnt make sense to me that they watched Guede assault her sexually…Why? Unless as has been discussed on this site Amanda had given him the green light and having smoked weed he took it too far - this would have happened in the loving room I suspect - then Meredith obviously would be angry and stormed off to her room… perhaps this is where it got out of hand?
I hope Guede decides to spill the beans…imo he will be the first to do so - if any of them.
Posted by Giselle on 12/01/10 at 08:02 PM | #
Hi frenchriviera. We have no guarantee of ever knowing for sure unless one of them decides to break the code of silence. PMF has for the past few days had a lot of chat going on exactly on this possibility.
Presently we seem to have Sollecito icy cold and perhaps distancing himself from Knox, either through his own choice or his family’s; none of them like the PR campaign, and his family do not like Knox, who they think dragged him down.
Then there is Guede who is apparently now pretty ticked that Massei labeled him as the instigator and not happy that the wild claims of Alessi may be heard in the appeal in line with the sole perpetrator/lone wolf scenario.
And finally there is Amanda Knox who (if she is not acting) seems nervous, anxious to draw Sollecito back, and generally torn between her lawyers and her vast hoard of “helpful” fans if she is following what is going on.
Poster Cesare Beccaria described the careful punches-pulled maneuvering among the lawyers to push the others closer to the fire and so far it is still going on. At a guess, Giulia Bongiorno would be the likeliest break-away candidate.
If as I sense you have a distaste for putting the sex attack or sex game at front and center, I think many here would agree with you. Massei made more of it than Micheli, and it is possible that he blinked, to give Amanda some sort of small break under pressure from jurors.
Typically the two scenarios that have been most favored are (1) that it was rage and payback, with feelings boiling up for a while, and the final straw was the message from Patrick; and (2) that it was a flareup over missing rent money taken earlier (as James Raper advanced) when Amanda arrived back and Meredith confronted her.
Under scenario (1) Rudy would have been in the house because RS and AK picked him up in the park and maybe hoodwinked him in some way - for example by saying Meredith favored him. Under scenario (2) Rudy would have been in the house because he was dealing, or at least there to have a good time with AK and RS.
Under either scenario, the sex attack seems part of the aggression and humiliation, not the main point of it all. There have been a number of cases of “lord of the flies” type of crime where people in a pack go quite haywire. We might run a post on those.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/01/10 at 08:21 PM | #
Regarding Peter’s post, and the scenarios - number two seems less likely to me because of the knife. It’s my understanding that they brought the knife with them from Raffaele’s. Is this true?
I would like to beleive in scenario #2 - that they arrived back to the cottage and after Meredith became angry about her money things got out of control. But, bringing the knife along seems to imply a more premeditated and sinister plan. Although, both could have happened - they could have had a plan to payback, and had it further spiral out of control when Meredith confronted them about the money.
Posted by Mechele on 12/01/10 at 09:26 PM | #
I don’t think it’s that I have a “distaste” for putting the sex attack (or sex game) at front and centre, I think it’s that most of us here tend to favour putting the main blame on Amanda.
But putting the sex attack up front means that maybe Rudy is actually the one most responsible for the whole thing.
And no matter how Amanda acted afterwards, and in spite of the disgusting behaviour of her family, and of the FOA, and of all the white knights, and all the rest of them, it may be that in the end Amanda is not as much to blame as we have been imagining.
There is no question about her guilt, but it could be that Rudy started the whole thing, and then, for whatever reason, Amanda and Raffael joined in on Rudy’s side and ended up killing her without ever having had any particular nasty intentions in advance.
It doesn’t lessen Amanda’s guilt, but it would lessen her responsibility.
Because the fact is, Rudy assaulted Meredith, and I don’t see how they could manipulate him into doing that.
Well, yes, it could have started with a big argument about missing money, and then the group dynamics took over and they all three started doing evil things, since both Rudy and Raffael were attracted to Amanda. So it could have been Amanda influencing them and egging them on.
I think it would be good if Catnip could do the time line showing Amanda and Raffael in the park, the car breakdown in front of the house, the people who saw the tow truck arriving, the scream, the running footsteps and so on. Isn’t there a discrepancy there, because didn’t Rudy run into some people in the street who reported seeing the tow truck arriving at the same time, when it is generally accepted that the murder took place AFTER the tow truck had left?
Posted by frenchriviera on 12/01/10 at 09:28 PM | #
I agree that all information about the tow truck, breakdown car, and any screams heard is crucial to help interpret the timeline. If what Lola says in her comment above is what actually happened: “The situation with the broken down car and breakdown truck lasted at least from 10.30-11.15pm and those attendant testified that no one was seen coming or going from the cottage, which was in apparent darkness.” then this greatly reduces the realm of possibilities. In this case I think that the crime happened around 10, as Mikaza suggests above (“phonecalls from Meredith mobile were definitely unintended “butt-callsâ€). Otherwise the house would have been lit between 10.30-11.15pm as MK never went to sleep that night. I thus think that when AK and RS were spotted on the park around 11pm they were waiting for the truck to leave so that they could go back and stage the crime scene.
Posted by annc on 12/01/10 at 10:08 PM | #
Hi frenchriviera. Well isnt that Massei’s scenario? The tendency to “put the blame” more on Knox as you claim “most of us” are doing is because they know there was growing bad blood, they know there was a clear provocation on the night, they know the knife Michele mentions was transferred from one house to the other, they know there is DNA evidence that Amanda wielded that final blow, and they know that AK was part of a huge cleanup, in which only she had a vested interest.
And later Amanda did seem quite pleased with herself, accused an innocent man (why didnt she just blame Guede?), told other obvious lies (even to her mother about the first call), and put people off her in the court and especially in her callous second day on the stand
The other two barely knew Meredith and there was no bad blood there or evidence that Rudy was even interested in her, let alone wanted to rape her. He was actually interested in Amanda. And the idea that Rudy just happened to be there for no obvious reason and a sex attack just spontaneously began, while two other people were in the house, does look to be somewhat improbable.
We dont especially put the blame on any of them in the posts to the exclusion of the other two, and we still wait for answers to come clear. We have often discussed possible mitigating factors relative to Amanda.
There has however been a huge effort elsewhere to demonize Rudy Guede with which you might be familiar. What we know of his early life and his situation at the time suggests he was in a very sad and difficult situation rather than his acting at the time like a demon.
And I dont believe it is generally accepted here that Meredith’s death took place after the tow truck left. That timeline is not Catnip’s, it is Massei’s, with which not everyone agrees.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/01/10 at 10:19 PM | #
Annc, always puzzled me as to why the house was not lit 10.30-11.15pm. Must assume Meredith had just a small light/lamp not visible from front of house. “DNA evidence that Amanda wielded that final blow” ... or that it was Amanda who cleaned the knife, therefore she was last to touch handle. We will never know.
Posted by Lola on 12/01/10 at 11:01 PM | #
Hi Lola. “Must assume Meredith had just a small light/lamp not visible from front of house.” Yes, Meredith’s window faced north, away from the street and intersection.
And any of those shutters that were closed might not let through a great deal of light. The intersection and the top of the parking building are extremely brightly lit. Unusual by Perugia standards.
Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/01/10 at 11:23 PM | #
Lola, good point but you’d think that if AK, RS, and/or RG had been in the house between 10:30-11:15pm that other rooms would have been lit as they don’t come across as the eco-conscious types. So I think this limits the crime to either before or after this time range.
Has it been firmly established that RG has an alibi for 23:30 onwards (supposedly first at a friend’s house at 23:30 and afterward at a disco, and prior to that taking a shower at home which wouldn’t surprise me if he took part in the violence and had to wash off the blood)? If so then that’s yet another piece of evidence for the crime having happened sometime between 10-10:30. Other reasons include information that is not listed in this timeline, but that is present in Michael’s timeline from last year:
1. Alessandra Formica, a police witness, testifying that her partner was almost knocked over by a black man running away from the scene of the crime at around 10:30 (the couple also witnessed the broken down car and breakdown truck).
2. Around 11 a dark coloured car is seen parked outside the cottage (per garage mechanic witness - Gianfranco Lombardi). “It was about 11pm on the night of November 1, 2007, and I was in the area because I had been called out to fix a broken-down car…When I got to Via Sant Antonio, close to where the house where Meredith Kercher was murdered, I saw a dark-coloured car parked outside and I noticed the gate on the drive was open…I didn’t notice anyone in the car and I didn’t notice anyone coming or going during the eight or 10 minutes it took me to load the broken-down car onto my tow truck.†“The statement is significant because Sollecito has a dark-coloured car, but claims he was not at the house.â€
3. Around 10-10:30 Hekuran Kokomani arrives by car at the rubbish bins area a short way down the road from the cottage. HK punches RS, throws a phone and olives at AK, who threatens HK with knife. HK drives further down the road encountering RG who recognises HK and offers money to hire HK’s car, first 50, then offering 250 euros. HK hears banging sounding like ‘wood on wood’ from the house. RG says there is a birthday party at the cottage. HK refuses hire his car, driving off having seen RS in his wing mirror running at him with knife. RS persues him to the lights, where a motorist asks HK for directions. HK has to reverse his car to allow the breakdown truck, which is probably just arriving, to manoeuvre. HK leaves (per HK)
4. A witness heard “a man and a woman arguing in Italian†inside the cottage “at about 10.30 or 11.00 on the night of November 1,†followed by an “agonising screamâ€.
I think if the crime happened sometime between 10 and 10:30 then all of the above fits (if 4. above happened at 10.30 vs. 11, and if during 2. above AK and RS were waiting in the park for the truck to leave). One thing that doesn’t fit though is: “At around 11 Nara Capezalli, the woman who lives opposite MK’s, hears screams coming from the house after which “at least two people†emerged and fled “in different directions.” Could she have gotten the time wrong and it was actually sometime around 10:30, before the truck arrived?
It’s interesting reading this timeline. I think AK and RS were caught so easily mostly for 2 coincidences: the breakdown happening (and thus their needing to wait in the park and being seen there), and the police arriving for unrelated reasons before AK/RS had an opportunity to finish their plan of first meeting with F and then calling the police themselves. Also, as someone mentioned, was the call to Mrs. Lana about the bomb in the toilet not a crank call?
What if her “around 10” was actually 10:30 or so? Could it be that AK and RS called her from the park, after the murder and with MK’s cell phones in hand, in preparation for dumping the cell phones at her yard? Their rationale would have been that if Mrs. Lama called the police and there was nothing then they’d be embarrassed to call the police a second time if they happened to hear AK and RS around their yard. It is a bit of a coincidence that the prank call was about a toilet, and that the toilet at their own place had not been flushed. Could it be that this is how the idea came to them?
Posted by annc on 12/02/10 at 12:07 AM | #
Too much may be read in to the incident of the witness who saw the broken down car and also described a young black man bumping in to her boyfriend between Grimana Square and Pergola Road. She said he wore a dark puffer jacket. We do not have any other description and do not know on the basis of this whether or not it was Rudy or, if it was, where he had been or was going to at that time (around 11pm): whether he was acting oddly, or not etc. Presumably there were other young black men in Perugia.
Again, the fact that the occupants of the broken down car did not notice any lights on at the cottage may, or may not be, just their vague recollection when asked as to this afterwards.
After all everyone was out except Meredith and her bedroom is to the rear. The lights in the cottage may have been off save for her own and I presume that like the other windows her window had shutters. Meredith and Robyn both expected to be at college the next day (mistakenly) and Meredith had probably retired to her bedroom. The night before she had been on her own and she may have anticipated the same that night.
One wonders just to what extent the occupants of the car were all that interested in the cottage, got out of the car to have a look, and exactly where the car was parked.
Difficult to get a good face on view of Meredith’s bedroom window from the road I would have thought given the trees, bushes and vegetation.
In addition to the photos on the website I have also stood on Pergola Road with the benefit of Google Maps. Worth a visit.
If Rudy was taken unawares by a vicious argument and knives being suddenly produced and waved around, then he may have needed little persuasion or manipulation. He played along with the mad duo. Safer for him that way. A moral coward in a difficult situation? Or not?
Posted by James Raper on 12/02/10 at 12:42 AM | #
Although duplicitous and self serving Rudy’s somewhat rambling on the record remarks about Meredith and the night in question do, I think, contain kernels of truth and insights in to his mind. He of course was in an entirely different position to Amanda and Raffaele. They had an alibi to stick to. He didn’t and knew it. Wriggling and looking for sympathy he may be but nevertheless he alone of the three shows some awareness (sensitivity even) of the sheer awefulness of Meredith’s dying moments. He talks of Meredith as a sweet angel, all that blood and of himself not being a real man.
Contrast this with Amanda and Raffaele. I believe that Amanda may have expressed some formal condolences but much later and, I guess, with lawyer’s advice. Otherwise there is no empathy or sensitivity at all towards Meredith that I can detect.
Posted by James Raper on 12/02/10 at 12:16 PM | #
Thank you annc to follow my thoughts about the prank call to the Laras. It seems too much of a coincidence.
Then, as for the cottage bein lit or not that night, as already noticed by others, not noticing any light is not “being sure there weren’t any”. With the wooden blinds, it was not that obvious anyaway.
Wasn’t Amanda’s bedroom lamp found in Meredith’s room, or the contrary? That nobody could explain?
Posted by Patou on 12/02/10 at 03:53 PM | #
I don’t believe Guede was “mostly to blame” although of course he did take part in the brutal murder.
Someone let him into the house. And that wasn’t Meredith, whom he barely knew if at all.
He knew Knox and expressed an interest in her sexually/ romantically. Knox wrote violent rape stories. Sollecito was into extreme porn and knives and both of them seem to be disconnected with reality. Both had smoked at least A LOT of dope if not other drugs. Guede attacked Meredith for sure. But he didn’t do it alone and I doubt he initiated it.
All three are to blame. I believe Knox was the initiator and had 2 willing followers, 1 of whom she tried to blame for the crime (by staging the scene/ cleanup).
Presumably the only reason Guede does not tell the whole truth is that he is scared of retaliation. I wonder whether Knox threatened him on the night of the murder, too - since having him run away, and potentially telling her and Sollecito’s part in the murder would have been a dangerous prospect for her.
Posted by lilly on 12/02/10 at 06:31 PM | #
Knox & Sollecito would have encouraged or watched Guede assault Meredith simply for the power play and humiliation it would have caused Meredith Kercher - and Knox had a building jealousy against her flatmate. My guess is that they wanted to seriously humiliate and terrorize Meredith, and with the drugs and alcohol, their sick games got out of control.
Barbie Nadeau, who wrote “Angel Face” and sat through most of the trial had a theory that Knox & Sollecito didn’t remember what they did the night of the murder because they did too many drugs/alcohol. I don’t know if I quite believe that…but it is possible.
Posted by giustizia on 12/03/10 at 02:55 AM | #
Patou, you’re welcome. I wonder if the police investigated this angle at all. For example, is there a pay phone somewhere near the park where AK and RS were spotted around 10:30-11pm? If so, does that pay phone provide an address book, or is there a number one can call to get this info? If so they could have chosen someone at random who lives within the area where they wanted to dump the phones. Was the phone company ever able to recover the phone that was used to call about the bomb threat?
Posted by annc on 12/03/10 at 09:57 PM | #
The fact that AK and RS were ‘drugged up’ is accepted as the norm. I wonder if the opposite may be true - they had time on their hands so they WANTED drugs but no cash but AK knew somebody who did . . . RS conversations with his father on the evening of 1/11/10 seem quite lucid, boring and un-druggy.
Posted by PK777 on 12/03/10 at 09:58 PM | #
Hi Annc
As you say, does reduce possibilities if no one entered or left cottage 10.30-11.15, and with house in darkness, your scenario of crime happening around 10.00 seems plausible. Thought that myself for long time but then revised view after Massei. Doubt AK & RS would have hung around brightly lit area after crime, given probably stained with blood. RG had alibi from nightclub but I don’t think it was till early hours of morning. Not sure whether the dark car outside the cottage established as belonging to one of the housemates (anyone know?). Kokomani was of course discredited and there was no definitive identification by Formica. Clearly either Capezalli or other witness mistaken about time of scream. Always puzzled me why Capezalli took so long to come forward to the police; was she scared? If so, of what? Phone call regarding ‘bomb’ was traced to prankster elsewhere. I too have always thought Knox was the main instigator for all the reasons discussed and outlined here, and must admit to being somewhat surprised by Massei putting RG as the one.
Posted by Lola on 12/04/10 at 07:28 PM | #
Hi Lola,
I don’t think Nara Capezzali or Maria Luisa Dramis are mistaken about the time they heard the scream. Giampaolo Lambrotti estimated the time he arrived at and left Via della Pergola, so you shouldn’t regard these times as precise. According to Mignini’s timeline, Knox, Sollecito and Guede entered the cottage at 11.20pm. This would explain why Lambrotti and the occupants of the broken down car didn’t see anyone.
SomeAlibi mentions the possibility of Knox meeting Guede in Piazza Grimana at about 8.18pm as they were both in the vicinity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71koGRTcr8M&feature=related
Knox claimed that she met Diya Lumumba in Piazza Grimana on the night of the murder. I think she met Guede there.
None of the scenarios put forward have mentioned the possibility that all three had knives. The bloody outline of the knife on the bed was too small for the smaller wounds and it couldn’t have caused the large wound either.
Posted by The Machine on 12/04/10 at 08:16 PM | #
Lola, thank you for the various pieces of the puzzle. It seems to me that if they entered the cottage only at 11.20pm, and the scream was around 11pm then there was not much time so that the crime would have had to be pre-meditated and carefully organized. I have often wondered if instead the crime happened around 10pm as I mentioned in my previous post, that RG ran away then but AK and RS came back at around 11.20pm after the breakdown van left, and finished killing Meredith at that point. Was Kokomani fully discredited? He did seem to know about the breakdown car as well as the 300 euro, which I suppose were pieces of information that were not available to the public at that point.
Posted by annc on 12/10/10 at 03:12 AM | #
Hi annc
The scream Capezzali heard was around 11.30pm. I seem to remember reading somewhere another scream heard around 10pm, but can’t locate it at moment. Kokomani was indeed confused and inconsistent, but not totally lacking in credibility given that he apparently knew about the breakdown truck. Unsure as to whether the information about the euros and breakdown truck already in public arena but shame he deleted those photos on his mobile.
Posted by Lola on 12/13/10 at 10:50 PM | #
Another thing that occurs to me now is that I remember reading that AK mentioned to friends that Meredith had taken a long time to die from her wound. If the first attack was only at around 11.30pm and the death report also seems to point the time of death to around 11.30pm, then the death would have been close to immediate. However, if Meredith was first attacked around 10pm, but killed around 11.30pm then AK would have known that Meredith had suffered for a long time when she came back to the cottage after the breakdown car left.
Posted by annc on 12/15/10 at 07:34 PM | #
annc,
According to Robyn Butterworth, Amanda horrifed Meredith’s friends at the police station by saying ” She died a terrible slow death with her throat cut”.
Quite apart from the appalling insensitivity of the remark the question arises how she would have known that Meredith’s throat had been cut.
Furthermore it is not clear whether she meant that Meredith’s death was terrible or that it was terribly slow. If terribly slow how would she have known?
Fixing a precise time of death is not possible. It is not an exact science as the Massei Report made clear. It could have been an hour or two either side of 11.30pm.
In any event it is as if she relished the horror the remark caused. This in front of Raffaele as well. And in a police station. It is as if they both felt invincible together, glorying in the secret knowledge that set them apart.
I have long thought that the three would have panicked and left fairly quickly after the fatal stabwound and scream for fear of being discovered and that the staging and cleaning was carried out hours later. They could not have risked the possibility that Meredith’s scream had been heard and that this had been reported to the police.
If so then it is probable that they left Meredith in the knowledge that she was dying but not yet dead, locking her in and taking her mobiles so as to exclude any possibilty that she could call for assistance.
Posted by James Raper on 12/15/10 at 11:06 PM | #
Plausible, my only thought is that if there was an initial attack around 10pm, followed by the fatal one around 11.30pm then, even if they had locked the door and taken the phones at this point, they must have known that she may still have been able to raise the alarm by shouting for help through the window. Given the wide time frame of the autopsy, poor Meredith may still have taken a long time to die after 11.30pm.
Posted by Lola on 12/15/10 at 11:31 PM | #
Lola,
I do not think there were two attacks. Just one at around 11.30pm. The fatal knife wound and loss of blood would have prevented her from doing much at all including, come to think of it, crawling very far or making a phone call. I am assuming this was also evident to A and R but that as they were going to make themselves scarce they adopted a no risk policy.
Incidentally I have realized that a terrible slow death does not mean terribly slow! Just slow.
Posted by James Raper on 12/16/10 at 12:54 AM | #
Does anyone know how far back Rudy’s familiarity with the cottage/ acquaintance with the downstairs tenants dates? I’m guessing that he mainly turned up there, on occasion, to party. The timeline demonstrates a pretty rapid escalation in criminal activity on his part. He must have been feeling low, after failing in his adoptive family’s attempts to set him up in some gainful employment, but I don’t think anyone had him pegged as a violent character. I don’t see the sort of break-ins he is accused of as a precursor to wielding, let alone applying a knife to flesh, else why not wave the kitchen knife and rape the teacher in Milan?
Is it possible that, with a bellyfull of bad kebab, he tried to knock at the door of his pot-head pals downstairs, then tried Amanda’s place, the dodgy lock easily gave way and he admitted himself?Then an alarmed Meredith confronted him, just in time for the lovebirds to appear and declare open season on Meredith? Not defending Guede, here, but I never heard of a sexual assault ending without genital involvement on the part of the assailant. doesn’t make sense, unless he was too embarassed in front of the other two, or honestly did not wish to harm Meredith. Or, owing to a cocktail of illicit substances, was he not able to achieve rigidity?
The nature, number and severity of the wounds Meredith received point to someone more determined to inflict pain than evidenced by Guede’s tentative “approach” .What is his history of reacting to insults? What were his emotional triggers? He comes across as being rather laid back, compared to Knox, who has demonstrated a vicious tongue, along with a sick sense of humour. And Sollecitto, we already know, liked to read snuff manga (watch it, as well?) and had admiration for psycho killers, no?
Posted by mimi on 12/16/10 at 02:52 AM | #
Hello James
I do not think there were two separate attacks either. I was actually responding to the comment above by annc. For some reason my comment did not appear straightaway, and when it did it was after yours! As you say, I don’t believe they were taking any risks and it was the scream at around 11.30 which caused them to flee in panic and watch the cottage, knowing that Meredith was fatally wounded and unable to call for help.
Posted by Lola on 12/16/10 at 10:45 AM | #
@ Lola,
Re the famous photos of A and R next morning. People have speculated about A’s hair and the mark below her chin. But also is that shock and concern on A’s pale face? Or is she just very tired? A and R almost seem to be propping each other up. Could it be that they have been up all night?
It seems that for a brief time at the police station she got a second wind i.e the cartwheeling and exercises. Probably easing out the cramp and stiffness from all that scrubbing and neck craning.
As Pater has pointed out A and R each lamely undermined their joint alibi relatively quickly - when they were not even being questioned as suspects. A sign of mental and physical fatigue?
@mimi,
I am with you as regards Rudy. He’s a poser. A jack the lad. Yet didn’t have a girlfriend at the time. Maybe he felt debased that A ( who he fancied) was having it off with R. But I don’t see him as a vicious killer. Just a rather sad,lonely, feeble, and easily manipulated person. But not entirely lacking in brains. I don’t think his lawyers ever had any trouble persuading him to take their advice.
Posted by James Raper on 12/16/10 at 02:34 PM | #
James, I think that is a look of real shock and concern at the police having turned up, especially the one with her mouth open. Both also look dishevelled and pale. A night scrubbing and cleaning would have had its effect. With the little display of comforting each other, RS constantly stroking AK’s arm, perhaps a sign of nervousness? Amanda clearly playing to the camera with that sorrowful and confused look, but on some pictures, barely concealing a smile.
Think in RS undermining AK’s alibi when she was waiting for him in the police station shows was straightaway moving to protect himself when (he thought) he had left no evidence at the crime scene.
Agree with description of Rudy; look at him posing with girls at the disco, and the shot with Armani. Egotistical, but maybe insecure. Yes, of the three possibily the one you would see as being less capable of such violence or visciousness, unless under influence of drugs. RS always seemed to me to be the one with much more ‘under the surface’.
Posted by Lola on 12/19/10 at 09:23 PM | #
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