Friday, May 03, 2013

The Amanda Knox Trainwreck: How TV And Book Suggest Knox Is Increasingly Far From Facing Reality

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding





Amateurism run amoke is what the unprecedented and unwise Knox extravaganza is starting to look like. 

Several TJMK posts below this one have already suggested that the book was rushed into print with very little fact-checking, with no restraint on damaging false accusations,  and with no strategic legal considerations.

The same thing seems to have happened with the TV appearances.

Knox had a year and a quarter under wraps to prepare herself and yet her many exaggerated and over-emotional TV claims contradict many things SHE HERSELF has said previously.

She seems to have been rehearsed by handlers with little or no grasp of the extensive fact record.

And where has all this amateurism left her? Open to slow erosion of her credibility by an increasing number of commentators while considerably upping her peril in Italy.

Because many of her claims falsely accuse officers of the court, she could be further indicted for contempt of court, and she could see the five years which was lopped off her sentence by Judge Massei for “mitigating circumstances” reinstated.

Those of us with psychology credentials may not have all been expecting the same thing from Knox when she finally surfaced. But none of us expected to be confronted so forcefully with a classic case of a personality in turmoil.

My first impression after getting through to the end of the book was that it shows such serious disturbance psychologically, so much being revealed in her own words.

It wouldn’t be possible to classify AK as clinically insane, the niceties of this being so precise - but an abnormal mind is clearly illustrated. So clear that it is actually sad - that she has been allowed and encouraged to do this.

The ghost writing, or/and her own expression is also painful to read in terms of quality of writing. These are the main points that have emerged for me, from a psychological perspective, after reading:

AK’s grip on reality (even without drugs) is tragically lacking. It seems that she doesn’t know what a ‘fact’ is. Every fact and event is seen through a lens of her own feeling or emotion - logical connection being absent - together with how she believes it is best to make it appear.

‘Her “best truth” is this over and over again. She doesn’t even understand that this is considered by normal minds to be lying. She doesn’t seem to have a concept of lying.

  • “their version of reality was taking over”... Does reality only come in versions?

  • “something didn’t feel right. it seemed made up”.  Does she not know?

AK continually refers to herself as “different”. She is, but not for the curious or trivial things she believes. She is also obsessively concerned to be seen and classified as a “good person”. This comes up over and over.

“I didnt want them to think I was a bad person”. Note, not: “I didn’t want to BE a bad person” but always “how will people think of me”. This is a continual theme. “I couldn’t believe anyone could think that of me”.

It does show a dissociative and non-integrated personality, with both deep roots and serious implications.  There are also indications that she is unable to ‘read’ people’s faces /expressions with any accuracy. (Emotion recognition).

A more sinister and disturbing facet to her personality connected to the above, which comes through in every chapter, is the automatic disparagement of anyone who displeases her (which of course happens frequently - whenever, in fact, someone has a different version to ‘her best truth’).

Someone is then ‘useless’, ‘betraying me’, ‘stupid’, etc etc. These words are all said matter-of-factly…. as if they really are facts.  Here are some more of these words, peppered within the text:

  • ‘Repellant, self-serving’, ‘hostile’, ‘insincere’, ‘abandoned (me)’, ‘uninterested’, ‘aggressive’, ‘spiteful’, ‘curt’, ‘disdainful’

  • ‘Old perv…lecherous’, ‘glared cruelly’, ‘idiotic’, ‘insidious’, ‘controlling’, ‘condescending’, ‘mean’, ‘hateful’, ‘ruthless’....

Note that it is not that AK finds these people to be these things, in her opinion- it is that they ARE these things.

The sub-text is: I am a good person, and they, having displeased or disagreed with me, are ‘bad’. Thus the mechanism for strong, unrestrained projection is at work.

Example: “The police couldn’t bear to admit they were wrong.”  Could she, though?

Her projections are so blatant, that I quake for her lack of self-awareness. I used to read literature as a window into self-awareness, insight, philosophical depths, and questions of morality.

Sadly this book is about as far from offering these as one could go. A PR machine missile is not a ‘book’ in the sense I used to know.

AK reveals a very strong inner anger, the control of which is difficult, and which it would seem she is frightened of, and frightened of revealing.

She would also seem to be based in a passive aggressive stance, which gives rise to a side seen as nice and even gentle. These two sides seem badly split.

This would be in keeping with the Envy hypothesis (I refer to Melanie Klein’s ‘Envy and Gratitude’). There are a few definite examples of the consuming anger which Amanda herself describes graphically.

She continually justifies it, also. Sometimes, of course, anger may be justified (‘just anger’) but as described here it is nearer to a rage or a tantrum when things aren’t going according to how she wants them to.

This speaks of manipulation, which would be part of the same profile, and is essentially destructive and spoiling, as well as something that wells up with a will of its own.

She often exposes her state of mind in certain phrases, without realising the implications of what she is saying. This is why I think the whole thing is so sad, as she has been used (seemingly mainly for money) in this foolish venture.

For example: “In that instant I snapped.” when the detective said “you know who killed Meredith.” It wasn’t the pressure/abuse from the police that made her snap, it was being confronted with the truth.

NOT her ‘best truth,’ but one that was simply unbearable to hear.  There are many other examples, littered throughout the book, of some of her inner chaos:

  • “This is my own fault. I caused the confusion”

  • “I wanted to disappear.  I didn’t want to be me anymore”.

  • “I didn’t know if I was allowed to keep my thoughts private…”

  • “Like a roller coaster ride….can’t get off. This is all my own fault”
  • .
  • ” I was furious for putting myself in this situation”.

  • Rafaelle - “He didn’t look at me. I wondered if he hated me”.  (Why should he?)

  • “We want justice. But against who? We all want to know, but we all don’t.”

There are many others.  Amanda Knox said she loved Italy and I believe her. With adjustment she could have been a lot happier there than she perhaps ever was in Seattle. Now she is in the position of demonizing Italy and its good people there, and in the worst possible way.

Italy was in fact very kind to Amanda Knox, and her treatment there was on the right lines to give her hope of enduring stability. What a pity that dirty PR and legal tricks and money grubbing may have pushed that out of sight forever.




Comments

Mignini has said in the past that he thinks he encountered Knox several times at her most vulnerable ever, and just a hair’s breath away from getting it all off her chest.

He is widely known in Perugia for being mild, funny, caring and principled, very much the kind of man (like a priest) that many people turn to to lean on and share confidences with.

On the night of her interrogations and thereafter she opened up to him several times and she might have come to feel very close to him.

You can actually see signs of this in the book. Her parents worked hard to shut her up and to make her fearful of the prosecution and (to our surprise) her defense really seem to have gone overboard in making Mignini seem a demon (she actually quotes them doing that).

By the time of her interrogation at trial in mid 2009 she had been made extremely hostile, and both she and her defence seemed to KNOW that Mignini had seen her at her most vulnerable and knew precisely why she was that way.

They stopped Mignini’s interrogation (it was about framing Patrick) just about every other minute, But it was to no avail. She still ended up with a term of three years.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 05/04/13 at 12:48 AM | #

One of the most horrible things in her book, according to me, is the way she doesn’t even spare Patrick. She slanders him, accuses him of asking her to flirt with customers, calls him a liar and what not. For god’s sake. Here was a man minding his own business, who did nothing but help her when she needed a job, and then she goes and screws up his life, makes him go to prison, and this is the best apology she can offer??

She laments about how she did not have a chance to write to him. This book was actually a perfect chance. Why the hell does she malign him? Does she think going to prison is an everyday occurrence that he should have shrugged off? She just cannot accept responsibility for anything. Anyone who disagrees with her or refuses to accept her greatness and goodness is wrong. The day is not far when she starts calling everyone a “hater”.

Posted by Sara on 05/04/13 at 01:03 AM | #

Thanks for this great post, SeekingUnderstanding.  I am still wading through this turgid book in between other stuff and had intended to write some things myself but you do it far far better than I.

I am particularly interested in your analysis of her personality.  You are spot on and I do think she comes across as aggressive / angry both in the book and in the TV clips I have seen.

You are right that she is being used in the most dreadful way.  This is so evident in the interviews where she appears to summon up the energy and required ‘vitality’ necessary for the show.  The photos of her in the DM just after her chat with Robin R(?) on GMA (the second morning) reveal her to be al the very least flat and conspicuously NOT upbeat.  She looks as though she is keen to get back into her own private bolt hole out of the public gaze.

It must, psychologically and emotionally, be a considerable strain to play these roles and put herself out there for public scrutiny.  I only have limited armchair psychological understanding but I would venture to say that if there is not already a disjoint between the emotional and the physical it will not be long in coming and she will soon snap.  She looks positively ill on screen and certainly ill at ease.  The hand twisting, the hard swallowing, the sighs, the downward-looking eyes, the closed eyes, the contradictory and involuntary nods and tremors and the suppressed irritation and rage ALL betray her.

To think that it is her own PARENTS that are placing her in this position and thus pushing her to the edge!  It defies logic!

@Sara: re Patrick I have just watched an extremely interesting video of her in interview with a German chat show host, Markus Lanz –

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8oTTudT_mA

In it he asks her some very systematic and searching questions and addresses many of the sensitive issues one of them being Patrick.  She actually does admit that it was wrong of her to do what she did and she states that she is sorry.  Unfortunately she then proceeds to spoil it by waffling on about her useless reasons why she was made to do it.  Huh.  It is quite a long video – over one hour – and it would take some time to find that bit again but it is past the half way mark if I remember correctly.

I have just posted about this interview on PMF.  I do wonder whether it is exactly what they signed up for as the direct and to-the-point questions really put her back on the witness stand having to give very detailed answers about the crime and its aftermath.

Thank goodness it’s not in English, eh, as the vast majority of the American people will pass it by and she does need them on her side when she comes to fight the next round of her judicial fight. 

Or so they think.

Posted by thundering on 05/04/13 at 03:38 AM | #

Thank you thundering.

I expect there is a school of thought that would doubt the relevance of going into the psychology or possible pathology. But I am convinced that examining the inner world of character and personality will ultimately help in building up a whole picture, and understanding. I think a lot of women, in particular, would feel better to gain this kind of insight.

It must indeed be hard for her to be endlessly dissected in public, ghastly in fact. But unfortunately it is a situation of the family’s own making. I agree about the strain of keeping up the presentation. I actually wish for her sake and everyones that this could end.

Amanda has demonstrated that she has a strong motivation towards her own interest. She also appears (alternating) to be desperate to please people, and the need to be liked (seeking her parents’ approval?)  is paramount.  She is such a child.

It’s just an oblique thought…  but suppose an approach could be made where it is really in her own interest - to start explaining what she knows? And for those with authority over her (including father figures) to be pleased with her, perhaps even praise her, every time she gives a tiny bit of truth and is authentic? (There is such an approach in dealing with a disturbed and disturbing child.)

In a cruel crime of this shocking nature (unintended as may be), it is very important that those who were responsible are found, because society needs to be protected, and, also, a society where justice is not upheld has no claim to consider itself civilised.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/04/13 at 05:28 AM | #

I just thought I would add : there was one small paragraph in the book that brought a poignant smile to my face, a solitary ray of light.

It is when the child of an illiterate lowly woman, who has spent all her tiny life in prison, and doesn’t speak…  after a while astonishingly starts to sing, with words, in a strange high pitched song - picked up from Amanda.

I could imagine how this felt. A real feeling.  We should also always speak the truth - it feels like singing, inside.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/04/13 at 05:39 AM | #

Thundering, I had the distinct impression that the systematic and searching questions posed by Marcus Lanz were for the express purpose of allowing AK to waffle on…. being heard as it were.

Posted by shavournia on 05/04/13 at 06:44 AM | #

Seeking Understanding: Thank you for such a thoughtful insight. There is a lot that is troubling about the sole defence of Amanda Knox being presented and judged soley on her personality.

Alice in Wonderland like, a thing only means what Amanda says it means.

It is sad. She is being used by her family. To some degree her own denial based on fleeing from the facts is what is and has been driving the frustration and sense of justice gone awol that drives the interest in this case.

Amanda Knox appears manipulative, detached from reality, lacking empathy, grandiose, able to present an emotional facade for a particular purpose..  mostly that others see her as an essentially a good person, as you say.

That she sees herself as the real victim in a horrific murder..  bringing everything back to how it affects her and the consequences for her are for most of us difficult to fathom.

Your post has given me a lot to think about and consider . Compounding the lie here and magnifying the moral and mental strain through the lens of the media to the point she can only say that the only real “truth” she knows is the best version she can come up with according to the script given to her is bound to have a worse impact on her than simply telling the truth.

On Marriott Gogarty and the PR media campaign having an influence ont the law courts..  where is the law if it is decided by money and media influence? Would we allow Rupert Murdoch’s media empire to X Factor style have us all vote innocent or guilty by TV remote?

Your are perfectly right, where are we without a proper form of law?

Sollecito himself saw Amanda as living in her own universe.  Will he ever tell the truth of what really happened here? What is his reality?

Your post is maybe the most humane comment I have read on this case.

Posted by Olliebear on 05/04/13 at 07:41 AM | #

Thank you for your very thoughtful comment, Olliebear.

I am English, and retired now, - which means I have the time, and also a long perspective on life.

There is much about Meredith that reminds me of myself at the same age, so I feel affected. I seem to have inspired envy towards me, especially from other women, when I was younger…totally unwittingly on my part.

I’ve often wondered if this perhaps gives me a window into how the relationship between MK and AK was.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/04/13 at 09:50 AM | #

@SeekingUnderstanding

Reading through your article, I was immediately struck by your description of Knox as ‘a personality in turmoil’ This is how I would describe her presence during the interviews.

I don’t think I will buy the book. Does she give an explanation as to why their visit to Gubbia was put on hold?

Posted by starsdad on 05/04/13 at 10:39 AM | #

@starsdad

Yes, inner confusion - affecting the ability to make decisions and to think with any clarity - is also a distinct feature of the same profile.

Regarding the Gubbio proposal, AK says that when she returns to the villa for the first time, on her own, and finds the bathroom etc etc, that she is thinking about what to take back with her, for Gubbio.

She then returns to Rafaelle (is this around noon, or don’t we know?), and just gives a simple sentence, saying,  ‘I had forgotten all about the trip’.

The whole tenor of the book, I found, was reactive…reaction to things previously said that mark up questions, and criticisms, discrepancies, things that really haven’t added up.

Her ’ best explanations’ for these serious questions are then proffered - systematically, it must be said.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/04/13 at 11:45 AM | #

Thx SeekingUnderstanding

If the trip to Gubbio was ‘still on’ I find it very strange that RS did not accompany her to the cottage and begin the trip from there. It is disturbing (bordering on incrimination) that she did not take anything for the trip back with her. We have to assume that as far as RS was concerned the trip was ‘still on’ when Knox returned from the cottage. Why did they not return to the cottage in the car and begin their trip from there?

Again, so many questions!..... Most of them beginning with ‘Why?’

Posted by starsdad on 05/04/13 at 12:10 PM | #

I have replayed that clip several times where Diane Sawyer asks her directly “Did you kill Meredith” and especially “Do you know anything that you have not told the police?”  and I keep wondering - why the furrowed brow and especially why the deep swallow, just before answering to that last question, and then the emphasis of “I wasn’t there”.  It just feels false to me. 

I feel like a completely innocent person would have been more relaxed answering that question, almost laughing it off because it’s been asked so often.  “Of course not, are you kidding me, I have said over and over that I was with Raphael all night.  We watched a movie!”  Instead, she was so tense.  You have to wonder why.  Because at other times she seems perfectly in control.

I also get the impression of someone who wants things her way.  She seems like someone who would not like being crossed - sometimes the expression in her eyes was chilling to me. I’m very curious as to the next trial and seeing if anything new is brought up.  I feel like there must be some evidence that comes up in the next year to add to the case one way or another. 

One thing I think about too is that AK and RS stayed in her room, next door to the murdered girl, instead of huddling with the other roommates and talking about how awful the whole thing was.  That to me seems very odd.  I mean, if that happened in my household, I would be sort of clinging to the other people in horror, and talking about how terrible, in shock.  Instead they go off alone, in her room, close the door? 

OK everything she did is explained in a way that ‘everyone reacts differently to shock’ and that is true but some things are just human nature and in times of crisis, usually people do come together, even if they don’t know each other well.  I don’t know what to think because nearly every point she does have a pretty good explanation for, such as the underwear incident. 

There are just a few things I can’t believe.  One is the blood drops from the ear story.  You KNOW if your ear is bleeding, right away, because you see it, you feel it.  I’ve never heard of an earlobe bleeding from a piercing but did anyone check when her ear was pierced, if anyone notice that it was sore, if RS noticed any problem with it.  If it is infected, it is red and inflamed and maybe has pus (sorry gross) but it does not drip blood as she claimed.  So if I find one incident where she seems to lie, it is hard to believe other parts of the story even when they sound more reasonable.

I hope that TJMK will provide a comparison of any points she makes that are conflicting with Sollecito’s book claims?  That would be interesting.  One thing she keeps saying is that she and RS smoked “just one joint” and that meant her memory was clouded, but still intact.  But doesn’t RS say that they were completely stoned in either his diary or his book, i.e. totally out of it, can’t remember a thing?

Most of the reviews of her book are very positive.  But I don’t know who is writing them.  Just like with RS’s book. 

There is no point to make intelligent comments on ABC or CNN.  Either they get deleted, or people just start shouting at you.  It’s up to the court to prove the case, or not, in the next round.  It’s amazing how many people refer to Douglas Preston’s book as a reference as to who Mignini is and call him crazy, a lunatic, sex-obsessed, incompetent, ruthless.  At least with the next trial there will be a totally different prosecutor.  The American public still has not caught up to that yet.

Posted by believing on 05/04/13 at 12:39 PM | #

@thundering, thank you for the link. Unfortunately, I don’t speak a word of German (or Italian for that matter) and it was very difficult to understand what she was saying over the translator’s voice. But in any case, she even admits in the book that she wronged Patrick.

But she ruins it by slandering him in various ways. It’s like - ok, so I put you in prison so because of it, you are lying about me and so you are a bad person. First of all, I am sure Patrick was not lying. Secondly, even if he was, who can blame him? Why can’t she just apologize and be done with it? It is like she cannot accept responsibility for anything at all..there is always a “but”.

Posted by Sara on 05/04/13 at 01:12 PM | #

Thank you SeekingUnderstanding

The similarity between Knox and Arias is frightening. Both of these women have little or no connect with reality and both refuse to except any responsibility for their actions in any way shape or form. IE It’s everyone else’s fault but their own.

Knox, somewhere in the back of her head, really believes she is innocent. Arias really believes she was abused etc: Both of these women are very sick and very dangerous. They play the innocent waif but underneath they are at the least, master manipulators, Arias being the better of the two.

They have lashed out and committed murder against not just people they perceive as threatening but against society as a whole.

Arias was always looking for a religion that had rules and regulations in order for her to function in life so she wouldn’t have to do it for herself. Both of these women used sex, not for gratification but for the need to be needed.

More important though. Knox was never happier than when she was in jail because it gave her structure where she didn’t have to think for herself and it absolved her of making personal decisions since these were made for her.
Something she is hopelessly unable to do for herself.

The last sentence from SeekingUnderstanding is completely telling which I will paraphrase since it states “The dirty PR, legal tricks and money grubbing have pushed Knox’s mind out of reach forever.

My only hope that is that eventually Meredith Kercher like Travis Alexander will not be marginalized since they are the true and only victims here, and such self serving bullies such as Curt Knox and David Marriot, who are in it only for the money anyway, will get what they so richly deserve which is complete and utter failure in their entire sorry little lives.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 05/04/13 at 01:12 PM | #

@believing, I think I would have agreed that her explanations are reasonable if she herself had not contradicted them earlier in various ways. And if RS had not contradicted them. Throughout the book, she keeps harping “my friend” as if she really cared about Meredith, but in her trial testimony she had said that she knew Meredith only for a month and was more focused on getting her own life back on track, implying that there was no great friendship.

During the early days, she said Filomena’s door was closed, RS said it was wide open. Now, RS says it was “ajar”, she glosses over it completely. She says she thought her flatmates had gone out to throw the trash out or something and hence she left the front door open. Yet, she had claimed that after her bath, she scooted over the bathmat all over the house without any clothes on. Is that what you do if you think one of your flatmates is asleep in the room and the other has just popped out to throw the trash?

She was adamant during the trial that she did not remember many things. Yet, she has the audacity to question Curatolo’s reliability because he does not remember properly. And to top it all, now she remembers everything perfectly.

It is not the facts or explanations on their own that are under dispute. It is the contradictions. In isolation, everything does seem reasonable. But none of these reasonable explanations were given at that time. And none of the contradictions or conflicts are addressed now. If she had told the truth to begin with, and stuck to it, none of the incidents would have raised an eyebrow. Of course it is easy to provide reasonable explanations now. She has had 6 years to think about them, and she has plenty of help, and she is presenting them in a setting where she cannot be challenged.

Posted by Sara on 05/04/13 at 01:24 PM | #

I think the Knox PR team are making two huge mistakes. First is to say there is “NO evidence”. There clearly is a case to answer, and when people discover that, it makes the PR look like a blatant lie. The evidence clearly points to Sollecito and Knox and they have never been able to refute it.

The second is to expose Knox to public scrutiny in the hope to win in the court of public opinion. In the PR business, it is believed that more PR = better PR, but that falls down in reality.

They would be better to keep Knox as silent as possible. It was not PR that freed her on appeal, and won’t help her in the real court. I think they got lucky once with a sympathetic judge/jury, but I can’t see that happening again.

The PR campaign is unlucky to have recent examples of Casey Anthony, Jodi Arias to provide a reference point for “unhinged female killer”, and the comparison is not favourable to Knox.

Knox’s TV appearance and writings show to all just how she has the sort of personality that could commit an horrific crime and refuse to take responsibility for it.

Posted by bobc on 05/04/13 at 01:26 PM | #

http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article115830266/Bei-Amanda-Knox-machte-Markus-Lanz-alles-richtig.html#disqus_thread

I could not follow the German interview because of the German translator talking over AK’s responses in English - very irritating to me, as I wanted to hear the English - but of course necessary for the German audience.  I was surprised at how well she understood his questions in German because I tried studying German and found it very difficult and she had only studied in jail?  But this article above showed that not everyone believed her during that interview.  She talked for a full hour - were there any contradictions to what she said before, for people who understand German? 

It was the first I heard that she had eleven ear piercings, but did she get them all just before the crime?  I doubt it.  Or even one of them?  Did anyone follow up as to WHERE she got the supposed piercings done in Italy?

I was thinking of one thing that should be possible to check.  Can’t the water records be examined to see if she indeed took a shower that morning at the time she said she did?  They must have a way to show the water consumption in the house that day.  A shower takes up a tremendous amount of water. However, if it maybe there is just a total consumption since the last meter reading so no way to tell what was consumed on any particular day. 

However I was also imagining that there MUST have been some indication of the shower being used i.e. water droplets on the doors, on the floor, condensation on the mirror, at the time the postal police entered the house.  I guess they did not really question her at the time and by the time her story was given, it was too late to verify.  It just seems like there has to be other evidence which has not yet come to light.  I don’t know how there could be no DNA other than Meredith’s in that bloody footprint on the bathrug for example.

Posted by believing on 05/04/13 at 03:42 PM | #

Journalist Nick Cohen thinks Amanda Knox’s book should be published in Britain:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/04/british-book-bans-libel-threat

You can contact Nick Cohen via Twitter:

https://twitter.com/NickCohen4

@NickCohen4

Posted by The Machine on 05/04/13 at 06:37 PM | #

@ seekingunderstanding.

Thank you for the reply. Close to my bus pass but still not sure if I have a long perspective on life.But as a father there is a lot I find troubling about Knox.

I think this site is perhaps the most informative comment on the case. It is also possible that the truth in the mind of Sollecito and Knox is buried deep within very troubled minds.
Seeking understanding is what anyone here would want…reaching a clear idea of Knox and her patholigical lying is probably affecting us all to some degree.

Whatever Envy enraged Knox to kill was not in anyway forseen nor likely to be consciously understood by Meredith and her friends.

The essential problem is that nothing appeared to really move Knox in an empathic way. She seems to only understand others as an extension of her self.

At a guess it is possible that the social ease with which Meredith valued and was was valued by her friends was beyond Knox. Others may have commented on the real difference between the two.

So inspiring envy in others is not something anyone really does. Being at home in your own skin was not and may never be possible for Amanda Knox. For Meredith caring for others came naturally.

Posted by Olliebear on 05/04/13 at 06:59 PM | #

Hi Machine

Regarding Rick Cohen. The UK publishers made the right choice and Rick Cohen doesnt have a clue. It has nothing to do with UK libel laws being firm - or even with libel laws at all.

Publishers for both Sollecito’s and Knox’s books are in the process of being charged with contempt of court in Italy. Once those judgments come in, and it is hard to see how they can be not guilty, as both books are riddled with false cliams of crimes, the judges will stick them with very heavy fines.

Between that and poor sales and the probable revived multi million dollar awards to the Kerchers, the publishers will be looking at an awful lot of red ink.

And at that point, finally faced with libel suits, they could fall over themselves to settle out of court. How much of this appears in Rick Cohen’s ill researched article? Actually, none.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 05/04/13 at 07:46 PM | #

SeekingUnderstanding, what perceptive insights into Amanda straight from the book. Many thanks. I got a lot out of this post. The photo of Knox with forehead wrinkle and frightened, “did they buy that whopper?” face sums up the tv campaign.

You talk about Knox’s fiery temperament and total denunciation of anyone differing from her wants or opinions. I have never underestimated her stubborn, intractable spirit nor her God-given tenacity, although she puts it to poor use. She will never stop fighting. It’s a sad use of the virtue of perseverance. She prefers to justify vice. I have seen her type before, up close and personal, the angel with the ice cold eyes and they will kill you as quick as look at you if things don’t go their way. They are tenacious to the death, like a scorpion.

The more anyone tries to urge them in a proper direction, the more they kick and balk and fight back. She made remarks right before her release from prison that showed she was dug in for an endless fight and had not changed a whit since day one. Tenacious, aggressive, and totally radical if pushed to the wall. A sociopath of the first stripe. And now one damaged by prison life, which was her own choice. Steer clear if you value your life.

Your final thoughts about how she might have been deeply happy in Perugia ring true. She got over to Italy and was so very happy that she feared her joy and obviously felt undeserving of it. So she set about to destroy it. To Amanda only loss felt right. Maybe this was due to the loss of her father’s protection in early childhood with the coping she had to do to support her mom emotionally and her sister, to be a substitute dad. Then that role was snatched from her by Chris Mellas a young upstart in her mother’s life. What betrayal. And reassurance nowhere.

We see Edda almost giggly on these recent TV interviews and contending for the spotlight. It shows the loud clownish nature that is the reason Knox resents the heck out of Filomena’s wailing theatrics (as Knox sees them). She must be sickened by such over the top displays of emotion, I know I am, not by Filomena’s but by tv antics from Edda who should know better but can’t learn. The giddy grins on the talk shows seem out of place with the subject matter and with the right of Amanda to be prominent in these interviews, but Edda’s twistings and couch turnings say anything to snare a response. And to stay on false message: Look at us, we’re all happy and thriving, the perfect family with the perfect daughter, she’s home, nothing eroded her because she was innocent, isn’t she wonderful? We are all heroes. We have won (nothing could be further from the truth).

I think Edda is now starstruck. So with this bizarre repressed father reacting to this histrionic foolish mother, Knox had two extremes to pick from.  Maybe she shot herself in the foot in Perugia to even out the psychic account sheet: mom would have a world stage to weep on and run her mouth wildly and dad could be saying a silent “isn’t she horrible, tsk tsk” and defending against the craziness with his negative shutdown self sending a message back to Knox she’d heard all her life, you aren’t worth dealing with Edda, I’m outta here. Then everyone would have the original family roles back with Deanna as the quiet comforter, the watcher.

The fear of success is as real as the fear of failure. It’s the saddest trick of the devil, that we often go on accepting abuse or a lowly situation the rest of our lives because that was all we experienced early in life. What’s familiar is comforting despite how bad it is. Because it feels like a role assigned to us by “providence” (not) we think it’s only right to embrace it. And look who pays the price for such delusions and deceptions, not just the one deluded and self-destructive but the kind people around him, in this case Meredith who did feel confident that life held good things for her. That vibe did not sit well at all with an embittered Knox.

I feel sorry for Amanda, but she shows great willpower when it is to her benefit as we see by this talk show tour, so with that much strength, IQ and willpower she had a choice. It was her own choice that she added to a tottering self-image and self-hatred (despite having the counsels of the church from Edda’s early Bible lessons and Seattle Prep) the blinders of drugs, fatigue, alcohol, holiday madness, maybe money worries and probably a hefty case of PMS. A total disaster was brewing with the clueless Raf a ready dupe.

Posted by Hopeful on 05/04/13 at 08:38 PM | #

@Olliebear

I would agree entirely about empathy…and compassionate caring, which one could say is an extension of empathy - certainly it is enabled by it.

I think that why envy is distinct from jealousy is because envy can be of a natural gift, like empathy…which is therefore something the other may never have or gain, (not like a ‘thing’). And yes, I agree, tragically, it is rarely experienced with consciousness. That is the trouble.

Now that studies are showing that empathy levels - low or super empathy- are reflected a) in gene sequences, and b) in measurements of the amygdala, for instance, and other variations in the brain, we will, it seems, be able to show that empathy indeed is ‘a gift’.  It can be nurtured and encouraged of course, but the essentials need to be there in the first place.

How we as a society learn to accommodate or deal with those without the gifts is another, and very difficult and complex problem. First we have to recognize, and then we need to protect other people from the devastating harm and damage that can result from the severe lack of these necessary human qualities.

Obviously that is why the institutions of prisons and/ or ‘secure’ hospitals have arisen - to isolate, and stop havoc and cruel action, and to try and prevent more victims.

I think, generally speaking,we could learn to be much firmer or clearer, - more detached, so as not to be pulled into all the manipulation and projections that disordered minds are prone to.  (Perhaps all journalists should study elementary psychology!)

Simon Baron-Cohen describes ‘negative zero empathy circuits’ and also ‘positive zero empathy’, the latter relating to Asperger type states, where the presence of an active moral sense makes all the difference. He also shows how empathy works in a spectrum. It is not as simple as Yes or No.

As a society, we are yet a long way from dealing well with the problems, and I suspect this is one reason why this case is both disturbing and distressing.

It is too late for lovely Meredith, but for her sake something important can be learnt…

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/04/13 at 09:23 PM | #

Now we have another article mentioning Knox´s possible mentall illness! “Clinically insane”, a term once again culled from the mysterious annals of psychiatry . I don´t know how clinical psychiatric illness manifests itself in the long-run. Do people actually lose touch with reality? In the end we know very little about the human brain and how memories are retrieved and stored.

The fact that Knox remains subjective, and egocentric in her perception of the world is nothing new to me, in fact the whole FOA PR campaign must needs have been subjective in its nature, whereas TJMK is objective.

Knox and Sollecito were on drugs by their own admission the night Meredith died. They have constantly resorted to “memory loss” as a very dubious means of defence. So frightening though it may sound , could it really be possible that they overdosed on powerful psychoactive substances to the extent that they actually lost touch with whatever remaining rational sense they had left and murdered Meredith in a total drug-addled frenzy ?

Then they woke up the following morning with but a hazy recollection of the night before? THe following Youtube video I found focusses on alleged loss with reality after ingestion of LSD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzR841AQLhc

Posted by aethelred23 on 05/04/13 at 09:34 PM | #

@Hopeful

Thankyou for your comment.  Just a small note : I wonder if the ‘great willpower’ you mention isn’t in fact part of the problem?

There are times when it is appropriate to let will go, to substitute it with humility, and perhaps acceptance of our limits or vulnerabilities.

It takes a lot of courage to change ourselves from the ‘assigned’ roles, as you say. It also takes time and patience.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/04/13 at 09:41 PM | #

It looks like other residents of Capanne prison are starting to paint a more accurate portrait of AK:

From prison warden Angela Antonelli (who guarded her for two years) -

‘Sometimes I felt she was like a vampire because of her strong personality – as if she was trying to suck emotion from me.”

‘She was very different to other 22-year-olds who were in the prison. She knows what she wants and is very determined. I’ve never seen a girl like her, especially as she was so young. It was as though she was constantly doing a job interview”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2319519/I-guarded-Amanda-Knox-years—talked-Meredith—cried-She-like-Ice-Queen.html

Posted by Spencer on 05/04/13 at 09:53 PM | #

@aethelred

It would be important to distinguish between mental illness, and mental conditions, for want of a better phrase.

The former would have the characteristic of reversibility, and therefore potentially curable, but the latter would not, but would be far more to do with genetic and structural factors (as I mentioned above to Olliebear.)

I do agree with you about drug use. It can have devastatingly strong affects, just by releasing the inhibitions that have been holding back an immature and confused, disordered personality.

I have found that there is a lot of tolerance for the use of drugs amongst students and intellectuals - too much, I am inclined to think. ‘Find your mind first, before you lose it’ would be my inclination.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/04/13 at 10:08 PM | #

I am so glad that Knox’s book was not published in the UK. Thank goodness the Kerchers do not have to look at her gloomy face in every bookshop window! *shudder*

On a different topic, I don’t feel like Knox has been manipulated by her family or her PR people. She’s an adult, she knows what she’s doing. My sympathy for her on that angle is very limited.

Posted by Earthling on 05/05/13 at 12:43 AM | #

@Earthling
Yes, AK is fully behind what is happening - selecting this high profile behaviour. The family, unfortunately, is working together.
My point would be that because of her thinking processes, -which she herself illustrates as confused time and again in the book - she is unable to think clearly about the implications of doing so. The choice therefore shows lack of wisdom or morality .

This a cause for regret.

My sympathy is reserved for the Kercher family for the pain and continuing grief they are being caused.
The contrast between this book and John Kercher’s Is stark. Meredith’s father, so cruelly bereaved, shows such dignity, restraint, and fair-mindedness.

His acceptance, and lack of blaming in his attitude, as well as his deep and genuine love for his daughter, caused involuntary tears to roll down my face long before I reached the end.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/05/13 at 04:51 AM | #

So how did she get this way?

We’ve had a number of posts on the psychology on the site but the raw material for a confident perception was lacking until the book and interviews came out. (Gee thanks Knox, smart way to go.)

Knox was psychologically tested in Capanne in 2008 and the judges made it obvious that it was definitely not good news but the results have never been allowed to leak out. (Unlike the HIV episode where prelim results were leaked by her own defense.)

SeekingUnderstanding sees genetic and structural factors at work - in other words, this is how Knox was born.

In her comment above Hopeful refers to Knox’s dad Curt as repressed. But it is known in Seattle that he was not always that way, and if you watched him closely on TV you could now and then see a terrible rage leak out.

There is hard evidence that Curt Knox is a sublimating hothead, with quite possibly all of the same symptoms as Knox. See this post here.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/should_the_amanda_knox_defense_maybe_point_the_finger_at_an_angry_dadd/

After we posted that, we watched closely to see what kind of response it might attract. We are told that Curt Knox pushed the hotheads like Frank Sforza and Steve Moore and Bruce Fischer (and hopefully Doug Preston and the PR shill Nina Burleigh) a little more into the wings.

For all practical purposes the relationship between the family and the equally angry Knox hordes seems done.  They seriously dont want this uber-angry angle to dominate.

It could explain a LOT of what happened in Perugia that night.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 05/05/13 at 08:36 AM | #

Thankyou Peter.

It is true that the management and controlled expression of anger is a key part of a balanced and integrated person.

If there is just one instance of uncontrolled rage, especially with unreasonable accusations, then this is enough to set up an instrument of control towards a dependent.

Just the threat of the possibility of such violent temper is enough to alter a relationship . It is sometimes called ‘the violence that leaves no bruises’.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/05/13 at 09:45 AM | #

Just about the evidence of the drops of mixed blood in the bathroom:

I had a piercing in one ear badly done, and it took about a year to heal over. In that time, I don’t think there were more than 12 tiny drops of blood smeared on the pillow. it certainly never dripped anywhere, - also was partially transparent gel-like.

Regarding menstrual blood, it has already been noted that this is of a different type, - and how would it be mixed with another? I believe it has been established that it was not the time of the month for anyone. If it was stale drops, I can’t imagine Meredith leaving it on the light switch for instance.

It just doesn’t make sense. I agree with the comment above that there must still be firming up of evidence possible.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/05/13 at 11:06 AM | #

If you haven’t read Eyes for Lies’ take on AK (first posted a couple of yrs. ago), here’s something current:
http://blog.eyesforlies.com/2013/05/watch-amanda-knox-answer-key-questions.html?m=1

It’s about the nodding contradicting the verbal response (“no”) re: her killing Meredith.

Posted by all4justice on 05/05/13 at 04:12 PM | #

And another (“Epic Fail, Amanda”):
http://blog.eyesforlies.com/2013/05/amanda-knox-makes-me-feel-violated.html?m=1

EfL really nails AK’s dishonesty here!

Posted by all4justice on 05/05/13 at 04:23 PM | #

Hi akll4justice.

Thanks for posting the link. Peter Hyatt writes our Statement Analysis posts and he is working on a new one for Knox. See previous ones here.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C440/

Posted by Peter Quennell on 05/05/13 at 04:23 PM | #

@believing

The ‘furrowed brow’ occurs because she is struggling to maintain eye contact. At the precise second when she is about to look away she stops herself, she moves her head forward and opens her eyes wider. This is my opinion.

Posted by jhansigirl on 05/05/13 at 04:30 PM | #

I thank all for the great conversation and exchange of ideas.

RIP Meredith

Posted by Bettina on 05/05/13 at 06:09 PM | #

@SeekingUnderstanding, yes I agree that using willpower to force and strive when something is beyond one’s natural ability is part of Knox’s problem. One needs to know when to apply willpower. The humility to accept limitations is a form of honesty. I was reading a great remark about this in a Thomas Love Peacock book called “Gryll Grange,” about singers who reach beyond their register.

Knox did remark recently on TV about not going to Florence if she thinks the risk is too great. “I’m not that brave,” she said. So she has learned to measure her emotional strength more soberly, judge her courage more carefully. I think she will always tend to exceed caution by relying on willpower, a flaw in the risk-taking fearless sociopath. Will she be heedless of consequences forever? The book tour seems to be a risk, but here she is.

We know too sadly about recidivism.

Posted by Hopeful on 05/05/13 at 06:16 PM | #

That’s a good point jansigirl.  I also think that for those three questions she was steeling herself, concentrating really hard, like, OK here they come, I’m ready.  I can do this. 

Two things I don’t understand - would they introduce any new evidence, if found, in the new appeal?  Such as retested DNA? Or test Meredith’s garments for any other DNA?  Would they re-interview old witnesses and interview any new witnesses?  Or strictly review once more the documents that are the record of the first trial?

Also people are saying that Rudy Guede will be out of jail next year already on a work release program - true?  I wonder if he will ever say anything else, or would he be compelled to testify at the new appeal?  Why would he not be called as a key witness?

Posted by believing on 05/05/13 at 06:21 PM | #

I think I have the right thread.  Sara mentioned AK saying she only knew Meredith for a month etc., & I think someone was interested in finding it in a video. Something that might help is the date of the Time article cited in this link:
http://adeathinperugia.wordpress.com/2011/10/14/is-amanda-knox-a-psychopath-andor-suffering-from-attachment-disorder/

Apologies if this was already deal with.

:]

Posted by all4justice on 05/05/13 at 08:39 PM | #

the radical ear piercings were meant to emulate her new flat mate, Laura. they were in aid of making Knox appear more “cool”, and it is highly possible she inflicted them upon herself. given her lack of respect for hygiene, they could have been infected and oozing. but not enough to she’d the amounts of blood the luminal revealed on the taps and elsewhere in the flat.
her affect in the brief Sawyer clip I viewed came across as that of an obedient pupil, or someone giving their tentative reply at a spelling bee, and awaiting the teacher’s approval.

Posted by mimi on 05/06/13 at 07:10 PM | #

@mimi

PS to the above where mimi says, “Her affect in the brief Sawyer clip I viewed came across as that of an obedient pupil, or someone giving their tentative reply at a spelling bee, & awaiting the teacher’s approval.”

Very nicely put, mimi.

Just two days ago I learned of another response & this to the entire Sawyer interview.  The “old gal I walk my dog with” (& who laughs because I call her that) told me of her friend Monica who has her PhD in Shakespeare studies. My friend, a science graduate of Cornell, is also very smart. But they both think it almost unthinkable that Amanda will return to Italy—& just today somewhere in the news I read of Amanda’s second thoughts about returning for the trial.

But my friend thinks that Amanda is guilty & Monica does not.  Rather surprising, then, her (sole) comment on the Sawyer interview about Amanda: “There’s something shifty about that woman.”

Posted by Ernest Werner on 05/06/13 at 07:41 PM | #

From journalist Andrea Vogt’s Twitter,

” A few key #amandaknox#FOIA records & letters from my case files now posted publicly for the first time:”

http://thefreelancedesk.com

Posted by True North on 05/06/13 at 07:45 PM | #

I agree with the impressions of AK being arrogant and angry.  I watched her on the Dianne Sawyer interview and can not imagine how she thinks these public relation campaigns can help her.  She comes across as brittle, arrogant and angry.  There is no true empathy for the Kercher family or respect for the judicial process what so ever.  She is the victim in her world.

Posted by Bubblybookworm on 05/07/13 at 03:52 AM | #

For those of you interested in involuntary facial movements as part of body language, - you might like to notice the distinct eye movement right-wards, immediately before she says, flatly, “I wasn’t there”. (When asked if there’s anything she could tell the police).

You may be able to see more in the whole interview - I only see the clip, here.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/07/13 at 04:46 AM | #

@ SeekingUnderstanding.

Also in the clip, when Sawyer is describing her being called “..a she-devil with an angel face….the Sphinx of Perugia” Knox momentarily seems to bask in the infamy before composing herself. Was it her pathological need for attention (especially from men)and the resultant envy of Meredith, who seemed to be receiving it, that led to the horror?

The absence of a dependable father when she was in her early teens (a critical time for the presence of such a figure for young girls) may explain a lot.

Posted by Odysseus on 05/07/13 at 07:06 AM | #

@Odysseus
Yes, indeed.
Also the father’s behaviour during the non-verbal years, up till 2years old, would be a formative influence.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/07/13 at 08:27 AM | #

@believing, Yes, I goofed. I’m sorry about the earring tangent (excess of joy, longwinded too). It won’t happen again. I appreciate the reminder, because I don’t want to mess up the TJMK site.

Posted by Hopeful on 05/07/13 at 09:46 AM | #

Chris Cuomo’s wide-ranging interview with Amanda Knox, “Amanda Knox: The Unanswered Questions,” airs at 10:30 p.m. ET Tuesday on CNN.

Posted by Hungarian. on 05/08/13 at 12:33 AM | #

CNN is airing a show right now 9:30 CST US :  “Amanda Knox: The Unanswered Questions”

Reporter Chris Cuomo is going to interview Knox.  We will NOT get any honest answers!

Posted by MissMarple on 05/08/13 at 12:38 AM | #

Sara mentioned AK saying she only knew Meredith for a month etc., and I think someone was interested in finding it in a video.

Something that might help is the date of the Time article cited in this link:

http://adeathinperugia.wordpress.com/2011/10/14/is-amanda-knox-a-psychopath-andor-suffering-from-attachment-disorder/

Posted by all4justice on 05/08/13 at 01:05 AM | #

Tonight I stumbled onto the Chris Cuomo interview at the halfway point. It was a shocking departure from the earlier interviews. Amanda sounded weepy and nervous in a very pronounced way, a far cry from the more controlled effort she made for Diane Sawyer. Her smiles were gone.

At this CNN interview she was really letting it all hang out, or pretending to. You be the judge. She said she wept so loudly in her hotel room that the people in the adjacent room called security. She says she doesn’t know how much longer she can defend herself or hold out with the legal battles. She explained her desire to take self-defense classes as a reaction to fear of someone not normal and obsessed with her.

She said she learned in prison that when frightened or under attack she reacts like a deer frozen in the headlights (likely story!) She also reiterated twice that people obsessed with her are not normal and she’s unsure what someone might do to her. Chris Cuomo seemed skeptical of that but moved along. She is hitting the “I’ve had death threats” note in this interview, very contrived I think.

She again claims her parents suspected she had PTSD after prison, perhaps she’s laying ground for victim status for a lawsuit or just playing Jodi Arias again. The jury for the Arias verdict was finishing deliberations on the other channel as the Cuomo/Knox interview aired.

Knox skated away from Cuomo’s direct question about her busted knuckles by generalizing it to self-defense classes, but she would not detail what exact move cut the knuckles. She may be lying about when and where and how they were injured if the PMF photos are correct in showing her hands fine at the Sawyer interview.

Quite noticeable how she got rather gloomy when the payback of money to her folks was mentioned, she made an adequate answer but not a fulsome one. CNN said the Knoxes had spent $2.1 million on her defense.

She emphasized quite loudly about how the prosecution deduced she had no feelings for Meredith by Knox’s refusal to look at Meredith’s crime scene photos in court. She claimed it was because she didn’t want to see her friend as a corpse, as “a thing”. She refused to verbalize the exact phrase assumed by the prosecution that she was guilty of murdering Meredith, but made circumlocutions.

She resents the use of her MySpace page to prove she was bad. She said the prosecution used the most innocuous things, “I could do no right.” This feeling that everything she did was viewed as wrong made her lose herself and draw into herself to hide, so that she became “very still”. She feels distress at having to cope by putting up a wall of distrust to everyone around.

She says she still has panic attacks. CNN said she had nightmares. Where does she want to be in 5 years? was his last question. The answer was that she wants to have been ruled definitively not guilty and to have made peace with Patrick and the Kerchers (my paraphrase). She got emotional about saying she wanted this legal case to be behind her at the 5 year mark.

Barely repressed tears and a quavering voice were the tenor of the entire interview, she was quite nervy and tearful throughout, claiming that when she begins to cry she can’t stop.

Her mouth moved down into an odd little roux at one point when she said she was being honest.

Posted by Hopeful on 05/08/13 at 02:46 AM | #

Thanks for the summary, Hopeful.

Here’s some excerpts with comments.

“I would much rather suppress my emotion than have it be determined as insincere and affected.”  HAH.

Translation: I don’t have real emotion, so when I fake it, I don’t like being caught out as a phoney, so I just don’t bother to suppress the fact I have no sincere emotions.

“I find it incredible that despite an absolute lack of evidence that connects me to this murder, I am still being judged based upon unrealistic and unreasonable expectations about how a young woman would react to a horrible situation…”  HAH.

Translation:  I am so arrogant & contemptuous of others’ intelligence that I can blatantly tell abject lies about facts & assume everyone will believe me, & while I’m at it, I’ll suggest that I’m the victim instead of Meredith, who had to experience “how a young woman would react to a horrible situation.”

“No one has ever claimed that I was ever taking part in deviant sexual activity. None of my roommates, none of my friends, none of the people who knew me there. This is simply coming out of the prosecution,” she says. “I was not strapping on leather and bearing a whip. I have never done that. I have never taken part in an orgy. Ever.”  HAH.

Translation:  I am a liar & I have a bad memory, since I have said & written that I took several strangers as lovers, are proud of having unattached sex, have written a rape story, peppered my first written confession with descriptions of unneeded descriptions of nudity (mine & Raf’s) & paint my conversations on national tv with words like orgy for “no reason” at all.

“I’ve received death threats since I’ve been home. And I don’t ever want to be caught in a situation that Meredith was caught in where someone is able to overpower me because I just don’t know what to do,” Knox says.  HAH.  Translation: I am a liar & trying to make myself sound vulnerable while misrepresenting the facts of Meredith’s sexual assault & murder by implying she was didn’t know how to defend herself & that there was only 1 attacker; plus, I want people to think that I was close to Meredith (knew her well).

Fact:  Meredith has martial arts training & it was found by 5 courts that there had to be more than 1 attacker.

From:  http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/07/justice/amanda-knox-interview/?hpt=hp_c3

Posted by all4justice on 05/08/13 at 03:19 AM | #

Hello,

I watched some snippets of Cuomo’s interview, and as expected, it is “all about Amanda.” 

In my opinion, she appeared to be very nervous—not as confident and cocky as she usually is.  She seemed to look down quite a bit and pause to “compose” her answer ... Ah yes, it’s hard for Knox to keep track of all her lies, and it was very obvious by her demeanor.

Could it because Cuomo/CNN did not give her the questions beforehand—or did she have the questions beforehand, knew they were more “hard-hitting” than some of the other media, but too late to back out?

Also, I am wondering IF she got paid by CNN for this interview ?

Posted by MissMarple on 05/08/13 at 04:02 AM | #

@All4justice

Thankyou very much for the above link to CNN.  It is revealing.

It is very full of serious examples of ‘micro-expressions’ ,that is, totally involuntary facial expressions that say a huge amount.

AK does have emotion, of course she does. But someone cannot feign emotions they do not feel, no matter if they learn to say, or construct, the right words. It is a question of feeling.

Personally, I incllne to refrain from saying things that feed her notion of being persecuted, which is obviously very real to her. If she could just quietly be accepted for who she is, it might help her be less defensive.

I know that the outrageousness of a PR campaign attempting to interfere with the judicial process makes it hard not to react with indignation…  but I do feel if the full weight, and dignity, of the law can be allowed to take its course, it would be for the best.  Perhaps I’m just a ‘buttoned up Brit’!

PS shame they went on about ‘deviant sex’ which serves as a distraction. ‘Sexual activity’ is enough.

I can understand the Italian reaction. I always found Italians on the romantic side.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/08/13 at 05:52 AM | #

The “deviant sex” claim and denial really is a red herring. Italians always understood what was being talked about (in Italian) was a hazing with sexual humiliation.

No judge said that didnt happen, though Judge Micheli and Judge Massei differed on who initiated it. Micheli said AK did. Massei said maybe Guede did, but that was one place where he seemed to be reaching to help knock 5 years off their sentences for mitigating circumstances.

Ironically such mischaracterizations now of the real case against them in attempting to get public opinion hostile to the court could have the reverse effect at the Florence appeal, and they could see the 5 years right back on again.

*******

We get our share of threats and they are never, never from anyone with an IQ above room temperature, certainly not someone who can absorb what is on this site. We know something about the socio-economics of the readership and it is toward the high end of the intelligence, education, income and empathy ends of the scale. Zero haters and zero threateners spend any time here.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 05/08/13 at 06:21 AM | #

I watched a documentary on the Manson Gang last night.  It was interesting to me that at least 2 of the girls involved in the brutal slayings all those years ago in LA were considered “good girls” from middle class backgrounds one of whom sang in choirs.  Extraordinary.  No one who knew them could believe they could do such a thing.  Parallels with AK perhaps?

Posted by Earthdog on 05/08/13 at 09:43 AM | #

@Peter Quennell
Yes, it was because I was impressed by the general reasonableness and fairness on this site that I stayed here, (as well as high quality information).

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/08/13 at 10:11 AM | #

Just watched the clip on the link above posted by all4justice - the CNN Chris Cuomo interview.  He really does go for her, doesn’t he.  Relentless.

It seems to me that her voice was much harder than in the previous interviews last week where she was more restrained.  Now she comes across as definitely hard.  Probably her reaction to Chris Cuomo’s very not-soft handling of her.

It was also interesting to note that when she said she had been thinking it could have been she who died (as she has been saying in most interviews) this time she added that this was a terrible thing to think as she should have been thinking that MEREDITH was dead.  But she was very young, you know.

I think someone must have pointed it out to her.

Posted by thundering on 05/08/13 at 10:54 AM | #

Just watched the clip on the link above posted by all4justice - the CNN Chris Cuomo interview.  He really does go for her, doesn’t he.  Relentless.

It seems to me that her voice was much harder than in the previous interviews last week where she was more restrained.  Now she comes across as definitely hard.  Probably her reaction to Chris Cuomo’s very not-soft handling of her.

It was also interesting to note that when she said she had been thinking it could have been she who died (as she has been saying in most interviews) this time she added that this was a terrible thing to think as she should have been thinking that MEREDITH was dead.  But she was very young, you know.

I think someone must have pointed it out to her.

Posted by thundering on 05/08/13 at 10:55 AM | #

I have always considered THIS site the only source of information regarding the case.As far as the CNN interview, I have always liked Chris Cuomo and would be very interested to hear what his true opinion is of the case. I think he was probably held somewhat in check by the network but wasn’t throwing up softball questions ala Diane Sawyer.Knox certainly appeared to be thinking a bit before speaking probably just to make sure the lies that were coming out of her pouty mouth were consistent with her past efforts. Thanks again for everyones contributions!

Posted by fotomat1 on 05/08/13 at 11:23 AM | #

@Seeking understanding.

Agree wholeheartedly that the place for evaluation and assessment of evidence is in an Italian Court.  The Motivation report will outline the reasoning behind annulling the acquittal.

It may be that the Knox campaign had hoped for a complete acquittal and they had a strategy to capitalise on that with the book release and the TV interviews.

Now Amanda Knox prefers to dissemble in front of a camera in a TV studio. Would she be able to prove her pleas of innocence in a court?

The parts of the Chris Coumo interview I saw only allowed her to appear the victim despite the abrasive tone and nature of the questioning. The “sex” angle was tabloid copy spiced up in order to contrast Knox’s “girl next door” look with the prosecution’s so called sex obsessed view of her.

Knox’s mantra appears to be “This is what I am up against”.Blame it on the prosecution being deeply misogynistic. Nothing could be further from the truth.  There is no misogyny here.The forensic and circumstantial evidence place both Knox and Sollecito at the scene of the crime.

Knox does appear to lack empathy as has been seen in her early reactions from the begining to this day. It is difficult to discern what she really feels. It is also difficult when you witness the profiteering and prevarications to not want to rattle on and rant about how this is a travesty of justice.

Pleading innoncence and reaching out on primetime TV to join someday with the Kercher family in grieving Merediths loss would make anyone lose patience.

This is when I wonder does she have any real understanding of how others feel. That suggestion alone appears deeply manipulative. I did look up some articles on the neuo-biological basis of pyschopaths. There are interesting studies that seem to even point towards a kind of neuro-law.

That is that some scientists see evidence for a disorder of the mind that could be seen as mitigating circumstances or reason to oppose the death penalty in some cases. Others look towards assessment at an early age and forms of intervention to prevent a disturbed child becoming a killer without a conscience.

If Amanda Knox is profoundly involved in Merediths murder (as the original trial clearly proved) how then can she go on like this?

Peter mentioned in a previous post that the Italian court may have a psychological profile as yet unpublished. It certainly would make interesting reading.

Posted by Olliebear on 05/08/13 at 11:47 AM | #

A quick note on our next posts: we are waiting for the wave of new readers to ease off (you are most welcome, please register to chat with us) because the next two posts move away for several days from the book and interview which are driving the curious to come here.

The next two posts are on (1) the fairness of the Italian justice system and how hard it would be for it to get things wrong or for any one single prosecutor to bend it; (2) the myriad dirty tricks played by the defense forces - and they sure are myriad and often very dirty.

The notion of gathering all the dirty tricks for that second post came from this book; the writer Wendy Murphy is a pro-truth pro-Italy legal commentator and ex prosecutor frequently seen on cable TV in the US questioning FOA claims here:

http://www.amazon.com/And-Justice-For-Some-Dangerous/dp/1481849670

Important: that is the fully revised version; Amazon is also carrying the old one. Pity its not in Kindle. Its really addressing US dirty tricks. With the exception of the Perugia and MOF cases (Preston & Spezi), the dirty tricks are quite obvious and mostly just make people laugh.

By the way the Perugia defense teams also play dirty tricks on one another. Sollecito’s book is actually a dirty trick on the Knox forces, though dont be holding your breath waiting for them to wake up to that….

Posted by Peter Quennell on 05/08/13 at 11:56 AM | #

Chris Cuomo has just posted that Knox thanked him for giving her the opportunity to perform the pre scripted answers to the hard ball questions.  He admits his questions were sanctioned beforehand.

However he never went near the mixed DNA of Knox and Filomena in Filomena’s room (the scene of the staged break in),the bloody footprint on the bathmat matching exactly the characteristics and measurements of her boyfriend’s foot, the indisputable telephone and computer evidence etc…etc…etc. but just let her babble on about there being no evidence against her, without challenge.

He did mention in his post that one’s behaviour (in the case of Knox’s bizarre behaviour) does not indicate criminality.  I don’t know taking it into the context of this case whether I go along with that.

Hardball questions? Ordinary questions more like.

Posted by DF2K on 05/08/13 at 12:04 PM | #

Hi DF2K

No evidence? Really? A great pity Chris Cuomo didnt get to see the questions that Kermit and Media Watcher etc addressed to Katie Couric and Diane Sawyer.

Katie Couric (who went very cold on Sollecito):

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/katie_couric_how_to_push_back_against_sollecitos_narcissistic_bluster_1/
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/katie_couric_interviews_raffaele_sollecito_we_already_have_a_sneak_pre/
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/katie_couric_how_to_push_back_against_sollecitos_narcissistic_bluster_/
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/the_rather_strained_couric-sollecito_interview_reading_between_the_lin/
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/the_rather_strained_couric-sollecito_interview_reading_between_the_lin2/

Diane Sawyer (who was not especially warm toward Knox)

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/diane_sawyer_interview_with_amanda_knox_how_to_push_back/
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/diane_sawyers_very_tough_interview_with_amanda_knox_abc_kindly_shares_/
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/although_the_youtube_trailer_suggests_diane_sawyer_wimped_out_and_turn/

No evidence? Well, what is Knox’s real fear of returning to Italy and attending the Florence appeal?

The pressure to put her on the witness stand (where she was a disaster in 2009) after all of this talking and writing will be absolutely overwhelming.

Where she would have to address a tidal wave of evidence.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 05/08/13 at 12:17 PM | #

@Olliebear
Completely agree about feeling offended, with patience being sorely tested by the Knox PR campaign which affronts both one’s sense of justice and sensitivity.

My uneasiness stems from being aware that AK is strongly motivated by her personality to make out she is being utterly persecuted, and I feel it wiser not to ‘feed’ this if at all possible.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/08/13 at 01:23 PM | #

@SeekingUnderstanding

I totally agree, and thank you for your insightful posts. It’s definitely wiser not to contribute to AK’s melodrama. Even the perpetrators of the most horrific crimes have some kind of twisted logic, compartmentalisation and lack of empathy that enables them to happily accommodate their deeds while labelling feedback as “persecution”.

Maybe we are all inclined to put the horrendous wrong-doings of others in a box called “evil”, therefore sorted and out-of-the-way. That’s definitely tempting sometimes, but it’s usually more rewarding in the long run to listen, actually intuit more than listen literally, to what these aliens (because that’s what they are) say, behind the front story. Your emphasis on the non-verbal clues is valuable here.

Enough said. I’m pleased to have found this site - it does go beyond the superficial story. Let’s hope the court in Florence follows suit.

Posted by Odysseus on 05/08/13 at 05:01 PM | #

Jodi Arias guilty of first degree murder. The verdict comes in today Wednesday 8 May at 1:50 pm Arizona time:

Now there is a new short trial with the same jury to decide if there were aggravating factors, meaning extreme cruelty in the course of the murder.

If yes then it seems automatic that she gets the death penalty. If not, then she could face 25 years before parole.

In the Knox/Sollecito case they were granted mitigating circumstances which was very controversial in Italy as many saw cruelty.

See this post for why they thought so: http://truejustice.org/ee/system/index.php?S=0&C=edit&M=edit_entry&weblog_id=20&entry_id=746

This issue will surface again at the new appeal. The arrogant callous books and interviews can be considered a form of cruelty.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 05/08/13 at 07:03 PM | #

Thank goodness justice can still prevail

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/08/13 at 08:09 PM | #

Yayyyy, justice did prevail today!  Thanks Peter.  One of the twisted sisters officially outed, one to go.

JA has been legally deemed a premeditated murderer.  My most sincere sympathy & well-wishes go to Travis Alexander’s family & friends.

Here’s hoping that the evidence & judicial insight & independence (not politics or pouty lips & sob stories or nubile gymnastics or expensive PR campaigns) find legal justice for Meredith & her family.

Aren’t we all here for the truth?  For accountability?  The Arizona verdict today gave me some hope in humanity & its systems.

Peace, all.

Posted by all4justice on 05/09/13 at 12:29 AM | #

Yayyyy, justice did prevail today!  Thanks Peter.  One of the twisted sisters officially outed, one to go.

JA has been legally deemed a premeditated murderer.  My most sincere sympathy & well-wishes go to Travis Alexander’s family & friends.

Here’s hoping that the evidence & judicial insight & independence (not politics or pouty lips & sob stories or nubile gymnastics or expensive PR campaigns) find legal justice for Meredith & her family.

Aren’t we all here for the truth?  For accountability?  The Arizona verdict today gave me some hope in humanity & its systems.

Peace, all.

Posted by all4justice on 05/09/13 at 12:59 AM | #

I am glad Jodi Arias was found guilty. I object to the death penalty on principle, so I hope she receives life in prison.

I was shocked when Casey Anthony was acquitted. However, I agree with Gerry Spence that no one ever truly “gets away with” murder. They are haunted for life.

Peter, I am glad you made it clear that hatred and threats are unwelcome here.

I was unable to watch the CNN interview in its entirety. The snippets I saw made me feel somewhat sorry for Amanda Knox. I hope justice prevails.

Posted by Earthling on 05/09/13 at 02:14 AM | #

@Earthling
Regarding the CNN interview (I saw clips)... I was very struck on the difference between this and the Diane S one….insofar that, from reading the body language, it would seem that AK is actually finding it extremely hard to hold things together now.

There were a number of signs of severe stress, and one of acute anxiety (around the word ‘guilt’ ). I believe she has now lost confidence in her position. Time will tell, but it looks serious.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/09/13 at 04:13 AM | #

Interesting interchange in the CNN interview:

INTERVIEWER: Were you into deviant sex? Insensitive question, but hey, we gotta get to what it is. This fuels the doubt. Were you into that kind of experimentation?
KNOX: No.
INTERVIEWER: Did Meredith suspect you were into these types of things and created a barrier between the two of you?
KNOX: No.
INTERVIEWER: And therefore you resented her because she was judging you? None of that?
KNOX: No. Absolutely not. There’s no evidence of that.

That’s a strange way of putting it. If there wasn’t any truth in it, wouldn’t she say exactly that - rather than say there’s no evidence? Understandable I suppose that she has to think like this, constantly judging how things are perceived rather than being honest and straightforward, but you can’t help feeling it’s a sad fix she’s in, one way and another.

Posted by Odysseus on 05/09/13 at 08:33 AM | #

@ DF2K

Chris Cuomo has just posted that Knox thanked him for giving her the opportunity to perform the pre scripted answers to the hard ball questions.  He admits his questions were sanctioned beforehand.

—————

I am glad you posted this because I was wondering IF Cuomo gave the questions to Knox beforehand.


Now, IF you are “innocent” WHY would you need the
Questions for an Interview beforehand ?

I mean the TRUTH doesn’t change, right ?

The TRUTH would be consistent so it would NOT be necessary to review the questions.

Now IF I were a reporter, and an interviewee requested to see my questions, it would send up red flags immediately—I would want to know WHY.

And there is only one answer :  she has a script to follow in order to keep her lies and stories straight.


On the other hand, good news with a Guilty of 1st Degree Murder for Jodi Arias in the brutal murder of Travis Alexander!

And continuing to seek True Justice for Meredith Kercher !

Posted by MissMarple on 05/09/13 at 10:46 AM | #

Chris Cuomo interview (& thank you for that reference.) One of three so far & did it come just a week after Diane Sawyer?  Robin Roberts in between for a “live” interview which I take to be unrehearsed.  Curious that Amanda did best with Ms. Roberts.

Overall & from the perspective of the general public, Amanda handles publicity very well. She neither wilts nor backs down, reveals a very expressive face (very much a “mouth” person—we do see other women like that, every once in a while.)  Cuomo interview makes me wonder: Does Amanda very slightly lisp or was that part of an act?

Clearly, these interviews constitute, among other things, a performance.  Judged that way, she performs well & is certainly worth looking at, worth watching for what she may give or may not have intended to give.

Too easy for those of us who believe in her guilt to rush to judgment.  The mere fact of & high status of these interviews (Sawyer, Roberts, Cuomo & the networks)—I don’t think Amanda has lost the American public or that Harper’s has mishandled the book (from their perspective.)

Posted by Ernest Werner on 05/09/13 at 12:20 PM | #

SeekingUnderstanding is right.  She is coming undone IMO.  The CNN interview is actually quite shocking (the few clips I have seen of it and also the questions, subject matter). 

It is almost like a confessional in disguise - she describes her thoughts and feelings for her ‘younger self’ which is HERself.  This is really more than can be tolerated - so glad I couldn’t watch the full thing. 

I would say that after all these interviews and exposure on national TV she is unravelling.  People must have made comments to her on her way in and out of broadcasting centres and I am pretty sure that the likes of Diane S and others will have seen through her - particularly after watching other, later emissions such as this one on CNN.

Posted by thundering on 05/09/13 at 12:24 PM | #

@hopeful

Thank you for the great summary of the Chris Cuomo interview. Summed up exactly how I felt watching it.
By the way the tangent on vintage earings I found useful, looked it up to see if my daughter liked anything good .A useful reference for birthday gifts/...anyway maybe there could be an off topic space on the site. Thanks.

Posted by Olliebear on 05/09/13 at 01:31 PM | #

@ Ernest Warner
I don’t think the British public, however, is similarly impressed, - if that is the case.

It’s the mouth’s microgestures that say the most about the fleeting unconscious attitudes - and incongruity.
Notice the half-smiles just to the left. Involuntary.
Smiles that don’t involve the cheeks and eyes, too. Apparently we can’t control the corners of our mouths, especially going downwards - another involuntary fleeting gesture.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/09/13 at 01:34 PM | #

Thanks to everyone who’s contributed their thoughtful comments on this thread.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/09/13 at 01:40 PM | #

Even I find it extremely weird that she talks about “evidence” every time she is asked a hard question. Why does she keep reiterating “there is no evidence”. First of all, there is plenty of evidence against her. Secondly, even if there isn’t, what is it to do with innocence? Why not simply declare that she has nothing to do with it. When asked about “deviant sex”, she talks at length about how none of her friends or anyone had accused her of it, and how there is no evidence of it. Why is she over-explaining? Simply say no, I am not into it.

I also find it really frustrating that some people seem to be buying her performance, when it has been made clear that all the questions are pre-approved and the answers are scripted. Like Miss Marple said, why the heck would an innocent person need to practise answers? They would simply tell the truth.

Posted by Sara on 05/09/13 at 03:20 PM | #

@Olliebear
On re-reading the comments above : as you suggest, ‘inspired’ was not the correct word for me to use in the context. ‘Triggered’ (envy) would have been better.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/12/13 at 12:21 PM | #

@understanding….Maybe that one heart warming passage you read was a load of BS too…just saying.

My comment is not a criticism of you and your big heart. Smile.

Posted by Bettina on 05/18/13 at 11:13 PM | #

Hi Bettina
Yes…one does wonder. How many times during reading this….it was transparent that the writer was attempting to elicit sympathy in a sentimental and manipulative manner, and framed the ‘creative writing’ to do so.
I found it depressing to read, for this reason.

I was simply aware that this site comes in for a lot of flack and disrespect - even in the UK - bias, hate, etc - so I have done my best to be fair, I really have.
I only want the truth. All I’m doing is looking for it.
Thanks.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 05/19/13 at 05:20 AM | #

Peter, a belated thank you for allowing me to participate in TJ4M. Meredith’s legacy is enduring. Here she can be found with us, inspiring and uniting seekers of her justice. To all the volunteers who made possible the translations, mille grazie.

Seeking Understanding, I’m late to this discussion and hope it’s not too late to comment. Your insight and psychological analysis of Amanda Knox deeply interest me. I hope to read more and more! You noted feeling connected to Meredith in terms of similar temperaments and experience. I do too!  Although the disturbed psyche of Amanda Knox has great importance in my opinion, and you offer brilliant observations, it’s Meredith who drew me into this tragedy. Of course, that’s because of Meredith in her own rights, but I saw so much of myself in this young woman at that age. My own natural reserve seems to “trigger” what I can best describe as competition(?) in some girls/women. Meredith could not possibly anticipate the danger Knox presented. But do you agree there were red flags from the start? The concerns Meredith confided to family and friends could be interpreted as mere annoyances, but Amanda’s own triggers were escalating and dangerous. Meredith was viewed as a rival but Amanda wanted her approval. I’d like to know your thoughts on this.

Posted by CaliDeeva on 10/17/13 at 05:45 PM | #

Hello CaliDeeva,
and thank you, no of course it’s not too late - all of these are enduring questions.
If I may answer your question in an oblique way :
When I was studying psychology, one of the tutors was explaining about what one might call different stages of growth, from a person at the bottom, dysfunctional and/or disordered…all the way up through the different phases of development possible. She said the person at the top was ‘a Realized Person’ - they would have fully realized themselves in all their potential.
Then she paused, turned to us, saying, in a joking way,
‘I have never met such a (complete) person, but if I did I would be so jealous and furious with them!’
People laughed politely, but I felt a deep truth come out here, as it often does in humour. Occasionally there are people born who are full of grace. They seem to have not only been given intelligence, but beauty, warmth, empathy, humour and a naturally balanced personality. And all without effort! (seemingly). And if one adds to that an idealism, and the un-cynical freshness of youth, it seems to be everything. (Though of course, this person also has to have diligence and discipline.)
To those whose Self is not so whole, or whose core self is damaged or insecure - this is unbearably hard. Deep down, they may feel their own inadequacies too keenly, and there is compensatory behaviour. If they feel they can never have the qualities of this admired other, perhaps the next best thing would be if this person could like them, be their special friend.

To feel rejected by them then would simply be too much - unendurable to the person with a weak sense of self but strong ego.

We don’t know the details of the story of the fateful night. (Perhaps, one day in the future we may ?) but Meredith was unavailable as a friend to Amanda on 31st October. Was this the first trigger, followed by unknown others?
I believe also the cultural differences between the more reserved English, and the American were at play too. AK herself has indicated she felt naive in some ways.
I think we English are actually very different, - and this was all new and strange at the time, with AK being only a number of weeks in Italy.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/17/13 at 09:13 PM | #

Seeking, your words seem to capture the essence of Meredith. I believe a major part of her ability to connect with friends was that ease, comfort in her own skin, and genuine interest in others. Amanda Knox seemingly lacked all of the above.

I know you’re understandably cautious about labeling Amanda, but could you speculate, for lack of a better word, about borderline tendencies. A psychologist who assessed convicted murderer Jodi Arias here in the States, diagnosed BPD. In my view, that’s conservative considering her total disconnect with her crime. It was a brutal crime scene similar to Meredith’s. I’m not a mental health professional, of course, but narcissism and lack of remorse always seem to round out the profiles of these young, female perpetrators.

Like Jodi, Amanda is ruled by image and feelings. Any perceived rejection can trigger murderous rage. Borderline types are all or nothing, so the admired friend can be instantly considered a mortal enemy, demonized. I don’t believe Amanda feels any remorse. It’s all about victimized Amanda. It sounds unbelievable but I’m certain she’s rationalized Meredith’s murder. Also, I am not convinced Amanda would have gotten any better in Italy despite the healthy distance from her crazy parents.

Out of her element, thrown together with sophisticated, confident, intelligent women, she regressed. She was not the center of attention in Perugia and that was a shock to her shaky self-image. IMO she’s a time bomb, fully capable of committing similar crimes. She’s dangerous but that recognition is impossible for those who buy into her faux wholesome persona.

Thank you so very much for your insights. I always come away learning something new and interesting here at TJ4M.

Posted by CaliDeeva on 10/18/13 at 12:50 AM | #

@caliDeeva
There is a great deal of sense in what you say.
I’m sorry I feel it is important not to give a label as this should only be after professional face to face analysis. As Pete has pointed out, the assessments done after arrest were grave enough to keep them behind bars. They were not released publicly.

I do agree with you though about potential danger in the future - this is one reason I am concerned about seeing beyond these projected myths and images.
Have you seen. Carol Poole’s post on Remorse, on here? I think it is very good. When there is not a whiff of ‘I’m sorry’, it is very affecting indeed, almost making one physically sick - it goes against all that we know for human nature when people cannot admit - or perhaps cannot perceive-  emotional realities.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 10/18/13 at 05:14 AM | #


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