Wednesday, December 04, 2013

With Sollecito’s First Plea For Mitigation Seen As A Flop, His Behavior Seems Extremely Suspect

Posted by Peter Quennell



Sollecito headed for Dominican Republic, but stopped pending court okay

1. Post Overview

A week ago Prosecutor Crini had begun a two-day summary of the state’s case so stark and implacable that it had two effects on Sollecito.

He stayed in his hotel on the second day; and he then took off like a rabbit for some destination initially unknown and repeatedly lied-about by his father (see Part 3 below).

One of his lawyers (accidentally?) broke the secret. Sollecito had flown to the Dominican Republic. Where he just happens to have some really unsavory relatives. 

2. High Drama In The Nencini Court

Sollecito has not ever taken the witness stand.

And given the minefield his foolish book and media claims amount to, don’t hold your breath expecting otherwise soon. However, last month Sollecito did use the Italian accuseds’ privilege of making an impromptu plea to the judges.

He was not under oath and not subject to cross-examination by the prosecutors. He did not address the copious evidence, and was seen as attempting to humanize himself to perhaps get some years knocked off a final sentence.

As always, Knox forces were left confused, thinking he had somehow helped both of them. But Sollecito repeatedly drew attention to his being an Italian and in effect to Knox and Guede not being Italians, thus once again separating himself from Knox on lines Barbie Nadeau also described here..

Our main poster Yummi was in the court and reported in part as follows:

One of the woman judges kept staring elsewhere and almost never watched Sollecito all the time he was talking. Sollecito’s speech itself was actually not that exciting. It was so overt that he was focused on portraying himself as a person who is so good and cannot hurt anyone, not the bad guy described in the media.  The real and only topic of Sollecito’s statement was himself, who he is, his “true” personality, he begged them to look at what a good and suffering a boy he is…

And believe me, Sollecito was just whiny. For a big part of his speech he was just putting distance between who he is today and the person he was when he was 20 years old. He talked about the impossibility of finding a job (the job he would like to have in a corporation, obviously, not just any job) and wanted the judge to project to his condition from that of young Italians who can’t hope to see a future.

Then 10 days ago the skilled senior prosecutor Dr Alessandro Crini fired back, and effectively demolished Sollecito’s premature statement. As we reported, Dr Crini took nearly two days to do that.

Sollecito was again in court on the first day, but was seemingly unable to face Dr Crini’s onslaught on the second day. He remained holed up at his hotel.

Although Dr Crini settled on a lowest-common-denominator motive - a Lord of the Flies flare-up which had escalated into mob violence and the fatal stab to Meredith - his recounting of the evidence and associated behavior of the pack was comprehensive and very hard. Translated from Cronaca:

Meredith was treated “as if she was an animal.” In this way Dr Crini defined the dynamics of the murder of Meredith Kercher during his indictment.

According to Dr Crini, the attack escalated to the point where the attackers felt they “needed to get rid of a girl they had abused”. While Rudy Guede sexually abused Meredith Kercher, supine on the floor of her room, Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox, according to the reconstruction, were at each side of the body of the victim.

“The mouth and neck of the victim were contained in a fierce way to avoid Meredith going berserk and screaming, and when Meredith did in fact manage to scream, she received the final fierce stab to the throat.” Two knives were used in the crime at the house in Via della Pergola on the night between 1 and 2 November 2007”...

Dr Crini referring to the bra clasp of the victim, said that “the presence of the DNA of Raffaele Sollecito is quite certain” and explained at length why there was no “possibility of contamination”.

Amanda Knox was at the scene of the crime, according to the identification made ​​by the scientific police in Meredith’s room of an imprint of a shoe (female size 36-38 according to the results of the analysis)... On the pillowcase, the center of gravity of this bloody history, were found a palmprint of Rudy Guede and this print of the shoe.”




3. High Drama Right After End Of Court

Dr Francesco Sollecito was reported as being shocked by the unrelenting tone of the indictment. However, Sollecito’s plight is not nearly as bad as the ever-stubborn Amanda Knox’s.

Knox has already served three years and was fined heavily for obstruction of justice. She could face another year for that if it is found to have been aggravating. And as the post below mentions, she could face as many as three more charges for aggravating obstruction of justice. 

Sollecito in contrast has respected the court by actually showing up, and, unlike Knox, has lately shown restraint in accusing his accusers.

However, the day after Dr Crini ‘s startlingly powerful summary of the case against him, it looked like Sollecito was hastily taking off out of Italy for somewhere. 

La Nazione reported that police at Florence Airport had held back a fully loaded Air France flight to Paris while they checked with the prosecution that he was indeed allowed to leave the country.  La Nazione said the prosecutors have some concern that he might skip and not come back, but he did voluntarily come back previously from the Dominican Republic, and his family has always ensured some presence in court.

But next TGCom24 reported that Sollecito’s father had claimed that Sollecito had already gone home to Bisceglie, although he is a free citizen still in possession of a passport and can travel anywhere if he wishes.

But then TGCom24 reported that he had indeed flown to Paris, but had turned around and come straight back again, to stay with family friends.  And that on 8 December he will sit his final exams in computer science at the University of Verona.

However, soon after that La Nazione reported that Sollecito’s father had been contradicted by his lawyers, and his erratic son had slipped through his fingers and flown “for his work” back to the Dominican Republic. Translation by Jools:

1 December 2013 – SCOOP. Denials, lies, game by the defenders. But in the end it’s up to the lawyer Luca Maori to admit: “Raffaele Sollecito returned to Santo Domingo, as anticipated on Friday by La Nazione”

He embarked from Florence’s Peretola Airport and made a stop-over in Paris, from where he then flew to the Caribbean island where he spent the last few months that preceded the start of the new appeals process. “But there is nothing strange - minimizes the lawyer - Raffaele went back to pick up the things he left there, will be back in ten days for the final exams and to await the judgment. With anxiety, but self-assured.”

No escape, just a normal “work” trip. Permissible, since there is no measure that prevents the accused to leave Italy. But the departure of Sollecito, accused of the murder of Meredith Kercher along with former girlfriend Amanda Knox (already sheltered in the U.S.) caused some sneering. And even the agents of the Border Police, when they saw him in front of the [departure] gate, made a phone call to the Procura to be sure whether the journey in the midst of the appeal process was really “normal.”

IN FACT. Sollecito ‘s father, in an understandable effort to defend his already too overexposed son, slipped on the so-called banana peel, placing the young man within a few hours in various locations, but never in the true destination across the ocean: in Verona, preparing for the final exam in computer science in regard to the thesis, or in Paris, but just for a flash-stay from which he was back the day after. At Christmas, maintained the father, Raffaele will return from abroad. Maybe for the last break before the final rush of the Mark II process, which, according to calculations by the Assize Court of Appeal, could be concluded on January 15.

Meanwhile, the hearing on 16 December is for the remaining civil parties, then double date for the defence, (December 17 and January 9) and hearing on the 10 dedicated to counter-argument. With Sollecito in the courtroom, assures the lawyer.

Nothing strange?! Doctor Sollecito lying repeatedly, instead of explaining to the media where Raffaele went, and why he went there, and why it was a huge secret, was VERY strange.

It should have official minds very seriously wondering why. WHAT did Raffaele have to do so secretly in the Dominican Republic - where his notorious mafia relatives from Montreal occupy a town there?





Comments

It is good to see some photographs of Raphaele Sollecito where the seriousness and gravity of the situation he is in appears to be dawning on him.

I expect he deeply rues the day he ever met the hapless, uncontrolled Knox, whatever his book attempts to convey.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 12/04/13 at 09:11 PM | #

Thank you…my time is limited, but I read every word. Smile

Posted by Bettina on 12/04/13 at 10:11 PM | #

@SeekingUnderstanding

It is really interesting to know that he did not realize the seriousness of his actions five years back.

He was and still an adult and must act responsible and take responsibility for his own action.

Passing on the buck is not an option.

I seriously believe that he (no, I am not forgetting/ forgiving Rudy) could have controlled the whole situation and is therefore both directly and indirectly responsible.

Please get ready to pay the dues. Grow up and be a real man and take your share of responsibilities!

@Bettina

I too have limited time left but I get angry at the gross injustice- yes, I want justice just for the sake of justice.

Is it too much that I am asking?

Posted by chami on 12/05/13 at 03:31 AM | #

He looks serious in the 1st shot, but in the 2nd, it’s only the appearance of gravity or meaningful concern, I think. He and his lawyer are on their mobile devices - one by visual evidence and the other by posture & instensity. In the 2nd photo, I think it’s her expression that is more meaninfully aghast (re: him &/or the circumstances of the trial).

Knowing how vapid Knox & he are, in the 1st he could be looking at a spot on his recently shined shoes, not hearing anything from his lawyer or really inhaling the true gravity of the situation. It’s all about appearances, selfish gratification, & getting off (of the charges). I know people like that: seriously disturbed & dangerous (though I don’t know that I’ve ever met a murderer).

I should say that I love reading your comments, SU, & look forward to more.  To the many, essential main posters & main commenters here at TJMK, I am so thankful for your rationality, ethics, & dedication.

Posted by all4justice on 12/05/13 at 03:33 AM | #

Sorry, I conflated the 2 pics from my sleep-deprived short-term memory: in the 1st he’s likely looking at nothing & hearing “Blah, blah, blah… murder… blah, blah…” while thinking “I wonder if I can get that red eye flight to SD” or “I wonder how ‘serious, intelligent, & honour-bound I look right now; does my hair look manly enough? where is Amanda right now, & maybe she’ll see me being ‘strong’ for her.”

Posted by all4justice on 12/05/13 at 03:41 AM | #

I too am glad he is looking a bit more sober, and he has been attending at least some of the sessions of the court. He has shown a bit more respect for the process than Amanda. I hope someday he can confess and show remorse for his actions, although I’m not holding my breath waiting.

I’m reading Laci Peterson’s mother’s book now, and reading how a true psychopath behaves is not a pleasant experience. It seems Laci’s murder was truly premeditated, and Scott Peterson is a true psychopath. I’m not sure about Raffaele but I sure hope he gets better advice than Amanda.

Posted by Earthling on 12/05/13 at 05:49 AM | #

Hi all4justice

I think maybe you’re misinterpreting RS a bit. He was indeed noticed to be somber and morose at the time, in light of the first part of the presentation by Dr Crini, he did fail to show up the next day, he did apparently startle his dad and others by hopping on a plane unplanned, and his dad did say he (Francesco) was shocked at how hard the prosecutors line was.

All do seem signs as SeekingUnderstanding says above that finally his dire situation is sinking in.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/05/13 at 06:25 AM | #

“Raffaele went back to pick up the things he left there, will be back in ten days for the final exams and to await the judgment”.

Is this a clue that he’s not expecting to be able to go back to Santo Domingo after the trial, thus the need to pick up his things now? Was Crini’s indictment indeed so unrelenting and shocking to father and son that jail now seems inevitable to them? Is reality dawning?

Posted by Odysseus on 12/05/13 at 06:42 AM | #

Hi Odysseus

Good points. It may be that RS and Francesco were at least hoping that his statement had resulted in a much shorter sentence request and that Dr Crini’s proposal of 26 years was the real jolt. 

Of course the 8th (day of the Verona exam) was less than 10 days away from the Nazione report so it might be that everybody around him is rather frantically winging it and some intense phone calls are going on.

If he shows up on the 8th in Verona or the 16th in Florence there seems an okay chance of his attempt at some mitigation to the court, part deux.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/05/13 at 07:36 AM | #

If Sollecito is indeed about to land back on Planet Earth, it is perhaps worth noting that he will be coming down from a great height.

While others in the past who were accused or suspected have also played a defiant “catch me if you can” game, his was about as aggressive toward the judges and other justice officials as crime history has seen.

He seriously tried to inflict hurt. Take the example we posted on here, read what he wrote.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/questions_for_sollecito_2_did_your_father_and_lawyers_pre-approve_this/

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/crazed_rant_against_judge_massei_expected_to_hurt_prospects_for_both_s/

There are also his many Facebook posts, TV claims, and book. His court statement glossed over an explanation of all of those.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/05/13 at 08:06 AM | #

His flight from the country doesn’t show a lot of fortitude, to say the least. It looks like he’s not yet mature enough to be confronted with the facts - so he hasn’t grown much.

I would expect someone who really wants this part of his life to be behind him to drink the wine of this judgement to the bitter end, which means to stay there and to hear it all, at least. To confess would be better for him, obviously, because he could start his life anew faster.

His hopping on a plane to go take a rest abroad can’t endear him to jobless young Italians : he is a young adult of means already convicted of murder and appealing of that decision, not a desperate-for-work poor but honest young citizen.

I wouldn’t want to be Dr Sollecito, with an out of control son who doesn’t even tell me where he’s headed and who makes me look the fool. On the other side, daily calling one’s college-aged son is something not usually seen in Europe. It points to great immaturity in the son and an overbearing desire to control in the father. I can see someone enduring such control, relish in fantasms of controlling others.

Posted by Sylviane on 12/05/13 at 12:26 PM | #

@Sylviane

Agreed. Unspoken mutual protection between father and son seems to be rearing its ugly head.

Posted by Odysseus on 12/05/13 at 01:12 PM | #

“well thats it then i’m afraid, theres nothing more i can do for you”

“surely you can come up with some lies cant you, please julia, i don’t want to pay for crimes i committed 6 years ago”

“No I’m sorry Rafa but i’ve exhausted the best truths i can come up with son “

“But what about my daddy, cant he put any pressure on or get Crini sacked”

“No son, i’m afraid your on your own now, not even daddy can help you”

“But nobody understands, I’m a good italian boy, i’m trying to make a life for myself, please you must listen to me. I wouldn’t even hurt a fly. I promise i wont do it again, please Julia”

“I’m sorry kid but your luck has ran out, along with your slut girlfriend”

Ha Ha Ha

slopping out in the big house for the next quarter century for you little boy.

Posted by mollythecat on 12/05/13 at 01:26 PM | #

Hard to predict what someone as erratic as Sollecito will do, but I do not anticipate him quietly serving a two decade plus sentence while Knox fights extradition from the U.S.

Posted by Ceylon on 12/05/13 at 01:37 PM | #

@Sylviane

I do not like that the parents be held responsible for their children’s (??) actions. Both were adults when the crime took place. Both acted without their parents’ knowledge or consent. Why blame the parents? Why don’t you blame the propaganda machine? Why don’t you blame the volunteer army? Perhaps the parents have failed but was the failure deliberate?

I know many of the you are parents and I hope you will realise the difficult situation for the parents in such a horrible case in which one bright innocent young promising girl was denied her future. In the present case, the parents have, unfortunately, crossed the line, and started support that have crossed the ethical and moral boundaries.

Although my interactions with young Italian students have been rather limited, they appear quite rebellious of their parental controls. I have told, several times, that unless you act like an adult and be responsible for your actions, and be both intellectually and financially independent, you must submit to reasonable parental controls. I also have told them that becoming legally adult does not mean much in terms of intellectual maturity and emotional development.

In my limited knowledge, both the “kids” are “out of control” and in one case one of them is locked up and the other one roams wild and free. Both remain dangerous, but fortunately far from each other.

Posted by chami on 12/05/13 at 01:46 PM | #

During all of this I wonder what Knox’s days are like?

In my forty three years in the Military and having to make decisions as to the welfare of the people under my command, I came to understand psychology quite well. Also bringing up seven kids has helped me focus upon the trials and tribulations of physiological behavior far better than going to school.

this then, in my opinion, is Knox’s day. 

She is living in a dream world where one day is just like the day before and will be just like tomorrow. This is the ever present “Sword of Damocles.” because she is waiting for this sword to fall on her which of course it eventually will, and no matter what she does the sword will not go away. Better than that she is irrevocably tied to her mother and her biological father who given the psychology of her angry parents is not a good place to be since they obviously feels inconvenienced.  I don’t see much going on with her step father though who seems to have faded into the woodwork.

Every waking moment of her day she will not be able to shake this fear and I believe that this is eating away at her. It would not surprise me at all if she is not on drugs in order to cope with the stress and the guilt and the realization that Sollicito is an idiot who eventually will sell her down the river, just as so many others have done and will do in the future.

It’s the realization that she is nothing but a means of financial gain to so many of her so called supporters, Michelle and Steve Moore come to mind as do all the others. She is good copy after all and nothing else.

Anyway that’s my observations. Knox must read this stuff from Sollicito with horror. Oh sorry she is being shielded from everything by her supporters but they can’t stop the ‘Sword Of Damocles’

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 12/05/13 at 02:23 PM | #

To even contemplate inflicting hurt and pain on another human being during sex or through sexual action must be the sign of an unhealthy mind. Who could want to hurt anyone this way?
To actually acquiesce in allowing something of this nature to be carried out is dreadful. It must be faced.

But the facing up to it -if that is what is belatedly occurring- could well be de-stabilizing, and make someone act in an unbalanced, impulsive manner.

So far we have seen a great deal of self-pity and self interest, and very little to nil concern for other people, even those who have loved and cared for this all very important self.
If the truth begins to dawn about how selfishness very badly affects or ‘impacts’ on other people, it could easily throw someone into complete irrationality. They couldn’t cope, mentally.
In other words, RS might have intended to attend the court and hear Crini out, and be dutiful towards his father’s wishes, but he quite simply couldn’t do it.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 12/05/13 at 05:46 PM | #

My expectation is that Sollecito will pull a no-show at his trial, I don’t think he is man enough to stand up for himself and answer for his actions, the burden is now heavier, and he knows he doesn’t have a chance. The cherry on the pie might be flunking his final exams, I don’t see how anyone in his position can possibly sit down and study. No matter what happens, though, it’s game over for him, I don’t think he will ever tell the truth. The day of reckoning is nigh, boy.

Posted by Bjorn on 12/05/13 at 06:25 PM | #

Bang him up for the rest of is natural.

He can share a cell with his Dr Daddy.

Please tell me anybody….What kind of scumbag sells images of a young woman brutally murdered to a TV network. He’s as deranged as the offspring.

He knows his idiotic crazed sadistic son is a maniac too..

Posted by mollythecat on 12/05/13 at 07:12 PM | #

Mollythecat, thnx for counterpointing the academic tone, for a while . I agree fully!

Posted by Helder Licht on 12/05/13 at 07:52 PM | #

@ mollythecat
WOW I had forgotten that. Thank you for reminding me of that allusive fact. I agree with you. Strange as time goes forward I see more and more similarities with both families. The abject failure to take responsibility for ones actions is paramount in both. In particular I am reminded of Sollecito’s sister who tried to pervert the course of justice just like that bottom feeder Curt who is and always was in it for the money anyway. Proof is his refusal to provide child support which probably contributed to Knox turning into the manipulative murderer she is

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 12/05/13 at 07:57 PM | #

“That is Knox’s view of the world she comes from which is a society that views black people as being inferior”

What is that comment supposed to mean?  Some sort of slam against Americans in general being racists?

Brits and Europeans who have a significant number of their citizens doing monkey chant at black soccer players need not make such unwarranted comments about Americans all being racists.  Britain’s racial issues are signifcant.

Posted by Gonzaga on 12/05/13 at 08:36 PM | #

@grahame,

I’m in agreement with Gonzaga.  Can you stop with the generalizations about Seattle society, including about its attitudes on race?  I live in a district not far from West Seattle that is very multi-racial, as is my household.

Seattle is a very educated city that draws on the talents of people from wide range of backgrounds.  Please just give your broad generalizations a permanent rest.

Posted by Media Watcher on 12/05/13 at 09:22 PM | #

Speaking for myself I did not recognise a generalization in Graham’s comment nor a hint to America or Seattle.
I do recognise a general anger in the late comments.

Posted by Helder Licht on 12/05/13 at 09:37 PM | #

I think people should focus on the evidence and this case.  When this forum becomes a rant for general societal ills (and I acknowledge there are many), it does a disservice to the quest for justice for Meredith Kercher and her family.

I’m mindful that Meredith’s family reads this site and that media reads this site and I think the discussions should be respectful and on point.  There are so many forums out there for people to discuss and debate broader societal issues….it just doesn’t serve anyone when this becomes a site for airing broader complaints - whether it’s about racism, sexuality, the decline of anyone’s morals, etc. 

It’s about a specific case where justice got derailed in large part because the media focused on side issues and missed the main point - which is that there’s an overwhelming amount of physical and circumstantial evidence that proves the guilt of the accused.

Posted by Media Watcher on 12/05/13 at 10:34 PM | #

@Grahame Rhodes

You are right about racism but racism is slowly declining in the US whereas it is increasing elsewhere. I think there is some correlation with economic development. Whereas Europe has contained the problem (mostly) the US is trying very sincerely with this problem called racial discrimination. However, it is increasing in the whole world. All said and done, it is difficult to remove from the minds and please remember that blacks and browns can be racists too!

It takes time. I completely agree with Media Watcher and suggest to close this discussion about race and move to the fundamental point of discussion- more on evidences and less on attitudes. We can change the law but can we do anything about the people’s attitudes? Let us focus on quality of the evidences and we are doing that very well on the whole.

Thank you Media Watcher for getting us back on track!

Posted by chami on 12/05/13 at 11:37 PM | #

To be fair father becoming ATM machines and women demanding this (if they truly think the man is so bad don’t ask for his money) that mentality creates women who think men are just to be used for their own selfish reasons. Let us please stop this. Clearly both of Amanda’s parents have very serious issues as does Sollecito’s parents. If I think someone is bad person I wouldn’t want to take their money either. How women see this as ok I have to wonder what they think men are.

The most disturbing thing I find about this whole case is both AK and RS needing black men to be the fall guy. That is true of many of their supporters as well. They likely learned this from their dysfunctional parents who when people have serious problems that are bad for themselves and bad for society in general it is easier to focus on an outside group to blame for it rather then supporting your own dysfunctional ideas.

Posted by adamk on 12/05/13 at 11:49 PM | #

Thank you Media Watcher. And also Pete for bringing the attention onto Raffaele at the moment.

@adamk

Yes, it’s about projection, which initiates much action that can then escalate to violent and serious crime, and the more people fail to see when they are projecting, the worse the results.

Regarding the forthcoming culmination of the Florence court, - there is bound to be underlying anxiety or tension as we wait - linked to the shock of what happened at Hellman, I for one cannot help but wonder if it could happen again, even though unlikely.

So keeping focused, and clear, and accurate and respectful can only help everyone .

In counselling we always say - when there is a wrongful attitude from someone that is injuring us : we cannot change the way that person is, or behaves, but we can change our own attitude towards how we react to this person, how we see them, & how we relate to them.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 12/06/13 at 12:26 AM | #

@chami

You read too much into my comment “I can see someone enduring such control, relish in fantasms of controlling others.”

Fantasms of controlling others, even hurting others, are quite harmless as long as they’re not acted upon on unconsenting parties. Sollecito could have turned up the controlling parenting he was receiving, and his own fantasms with knives, into a healthy BDSM fetish, but he chose to indulge in violence and murder instead. That was his own adult choice, no blame on his parents. We agree on that.

But I maintain that daily calling one’s college-attending son is a sign of something deeply troubled in Sollecito’s family.

Much has been said about the shortcomings of Knox’s family, some commenters have even proposed and seriously discussed that she could be a survivor of childhood sexual abuse (which I think is a slander on real survivors, who are not absolutely not predestinated to become sadistic murderers just because they were victimized), but somehow Sollecito’s own upbringing got a pass.

I wonder if it’s because he’s a male and therefore less fascinating to speculate upon, or if it’s because he’s Italian and usual European parental behaviour towards college-aged kids is not well-known to most commenters.

I do agree with you that students “must submit to reasonable parental controls”. In France that control is usually the demand for the child to ring home at least once a week, and to stay on budget : and that’s felt by most youths to be reasonable parental control. I don’t know any rebellious young Italians, but since French and Italian culture are so close I bet they would indeed agree to such control, even though they’d brag otherwise to strangers to their family.

In healthy European families, parents won’t ring their gone-to-college children every day. Obviously it’s not control if it comes willingly from the child, who may daily ring his/her parents for reassurance. That’s quite normal in the first year in college, or when one is studying abroad.

I don’t know for other-parts-of-the-world parental control habits. But Raffaele Sollecito was under unreasonable control, in European standards.

It begs the question : was there something wrong with Dr Sollecito as a parent, some unhealthy inability to let go of his quite normal son ? or was there really something so wrong with Sollecito junior’s behaviour, that a reasonable parent would be so wary of, as to check on him daily ?

If the son was indeed medically unable to be in a college environment, in his own native country, if he went for more than 24 hours without his father calling him up, how come he was allowed to live outside his parental home in the first place ? If his parents had reason enough to believe Raffaele was a ticking bomb - it’s either that or Dr Sollecito was a father with deep issues, to call that often - why did they let Raffaele away in Perugia ?

As for why Raffaele was a ticking bomb at 20, I think in all fairness, all the suspicion that has been directed the Knox-Mellas way for their upbringing of Amanda Knox, should also be directed to Dr Sollecito for his upbringing of Raffaele Sollecito. Unbroken families hide no less pain and dark secrets that divorced families do : it’s just better hidden.

Posted by Sylviane on 12/07/13 at 08:09 AM | #

@adamk

I don’t really get where your men vs women generalization may stem from, but for the sake of keeping focused on what brings all of us here, as nicely adovated by SeekingUnderstanding, let’s agree that many people of both sexes do behave in appalling ways to others.

Posted by Sylviane on 12/07/13 at 08:22 AM | #

hello Sylviane

thank you for appreciating my comment.

To me, the writing of comments on sites and forums is a fairly new thing, and there has been a lot to learn. It is, after all, a new form of communicating, a new art form.

I have noticed that it isn’t a form that suits long comments or complex ideas, or, in fact, digression.

So if someone has a complex point, they can run the risk of being misunderstood if they try and shorten it. Also people can take things personally when they weren’t meant that way.

Perhaps its because we are semi-talking, but without the body language and facial expression?

For the same reason I find some humour doesn’t always work in comments, especially irony.

I always try, when I am writing, to visualise who will be reading…

so feedback is helpful…

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 12/07/13 at 03:24 PM | #

“especially irony”

Thanks SeekingUnderstanding.

I ‘ll work on it. grin

Posted by Helder Licht on 12/07/13 at 03:37 PM | #

@ Sylviane

it is true that fantasy between consenting adults is not illegal, (within the normal constraints of bodily harm etc).  However, there is another side to the debate that it is nevertheless completely harmless.

It can be harmless, for sure…but is this not a variable, dependant on the stability/maturity of those involved?

As chami said,‘becoming legally adult does not mean much in terms of intellectual maturity and emotional development.’

There is beginning to be some evidence that watching some types of pornography habitually can be harmful, and, indeed, addictive - quite literally, in terms of brain chemicals.

It probably is unusual for a parent to ring a college child/young adult every day. But there may be mitigating circumstances (such as the premature loss of the mother, which could make a father over-sollicitous).

Also, in some families, the parents and children just ring to share things. Some are much more open than others, and in my experience the Italians love sharing. My mother had Italian blood, and it was certainly true of her - she soon learnt that if she sought to control, we all cut her off promptly!

I don’t mean to be critical - perhaps Dr Sollecito was controlling, and this control was unhealthy, but I don’t feel in a position to judge.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 12/07/13 at 03:50 PM | #

@ Helder….wasn’t being personal….honest!

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 12/07/13 at 03:53 PM | #

Hi Silviane and SeekingUnderstanding

Interesting to see the idea advanced that Raffaele’s father Francesco might have been TOO controlling.

Certainly that is what RS would like us to take away from his book. That he was a cherub and his father a bully and the more left alone he is the better things work out. (Yeah, right.)

RS’s book leaves a lot out, though.

Francesco pays many or most of RS’s bills and I believe he bought RS his car. He got RS out of scrapes in the Bari area (drugs) and in Perugia (problems in school and thereafter).

RS was behind people his age in his studies. RS had a knife fetish and a beastie porn fetish. The school he went to in Perugia before university was a special one for children of doctors who needed some structure. He had a problem attracting any girlfriend until one foolish girl mistook him for Harry Potter.

Also the cops are pretty sure RS was already or was becoming a habitual cocaine user and at trial the prosecution advanced the argument that cocaine was what they were both on on the night. RS’s father topped up his bank account just to a certain low limit each month and that appears to be to make sure a whole lot of his money wasnt going to the coke dealers.

Also RSs book is a tidal wave of defamation. The Florence prosecutors are investigating as many as 40 false accusations of crimes in the book, some of which we have posted on. They could cost RS more years in prison. Francesco had to repudiate one of the claims on national TV and seemed to have no idea what lunacies RS had put in the book beforehand.

And despite all of that RS repeats like a mantra the same whiney accusations. The RS interview with Katie Couric was chopped down to 20 minutes - and in that brief span she seemed to come to despise him, not even saying thanks and goodbye.

He is widely looked down on in Italy, and has been subjected on the streets to angry accusations.  He has again and again ratted on Amanda (not that we mind here). He cost Vanessa her plum job in the Carabinieri. His father and Vanessa still face charges for perversion of justice.

RS may be an A Grade son with a domineering father; but none of the public record seems to support that. Francesco seems to be his one and only shot at getting a lighter sentence or none at all. Bad time for RS to be blaming him.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/09/13 at 12:38 PM | #

@Peter Quennell

Perhaps he needed some controlling? For his own sake?

In retrospect, I think papa had good reasons to be worried about sonny dear but he had the knowledge and information about the past…

As you have rightly mentioned, he who pays the bills has a right to ask for some information- it need not be control in the regular sense but I do not think it is wrong to exercise some basic control knowing that his ward has a tendency to go astray.

He has not shown any maturity- I know him only from his own statements quoted here but he is basically a damaged good.

That his family- that includes his sister- has staked so much for him shows very clearly that they are aware of his limitations and want to do things that appear more than reasonable to most of us outside. That is their family affair.

I think we need to investigate this kid more that we have done so far. AK has been examined much more minutely mostly because, and this is my personal opinion- she is a female and they deserve more attention!

But the other sick fellow- permit me to say that- the Frank Sforza- is also a big player.

Sickness is infectious.

Posted by chami on 12/09/13 at 01:50 PM | #

Yes, it’s generally not such a good idea to be blaming our parents as we grow into adulthood and learn (hopefully) to take responsibility for our own choices and decisions.

@chami - the only thing that holds me back from deeper analysis of RS, to be honest, is the language ...which is my failing, that I’m not good enough to do all the reading required that is in Italian.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 12/09/13 at 03:17 PM | #

Generalizations are erroneous since everybody being different reacts in diverse ways.

Sollicito was damaged to begin with, probably due to his mothers death and therefore discovered that he could control the situation by manipulating the sorrow his father and others felt for him. This enabled him to get his own way all the time… “It’s only poor little Raphael after all.”

It would seem that the entire Sollicito family, Vanessa in particular, feels sorry and protective for the poor little murderer.

Same with Knox, They are both from dysfunctional families. When Edda was sleeping with Chris Mellas and being a ‘free spirit’ Knox felt the loss of control since she was unable to manipulate her mother to the extent she had before. This, in my opinion is why she does not like Chris Mellas at all who tried to impose a measure of control upon his wayward step-daughter and curtail her slutty behavior, hence the runaway to Italy. Bet Chris was glad to see the back of her, but of course that’s conjecture on my part.

They are both badly damaged goods and will always remain so and try to manipulate every situation because that is how they have learned to get their own way all these years. To this extent it is a learned perversion. After all nobody is born being manipulative but it can be learned very early on.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 12/09/13 at 03:20 PM | #

Raff, my boy, thank you for not disappointing me, you failed to show up for your exams, you can probably imagine how VERY HARD it will be for your defense lawyers to argue on your behalf in your absence (‘cos I don’t think you’ll show up for your court dates, either). I encourage you to stay in Santo Domingo, or wherever the hell you are, and enjoy your last days of freedom in the tropics, although I can guarantee you it will get very hot wherever you are. I am sincerely very glad you decided to skip town, you just made it extremely easy for the prosecution.

Posted by Bjorn on 12/10/13 at 11:27 PM | #

Is his defense day in court still on december 16? He is quoted on Ansa.it saying he’ll be back in Italy for his trial in January. His father won’t be giving interviews for a while I gather

Posted by Xarta on 12/11/13 at 06:27 AM | #

Cannot find the source anymore, but yes, I remember Dec. 16 for Sollecito defense, Dec. 17 for Knox defense, and verdicts on Jan. 9 and 10, I don’t think our boy will be present, though.

Posted by Bjorn on 12/11/13 at 11:36 AM | #

Hi Bjorn

This is the report on Sollecito - run it through Google Translate if you need to.

http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/cronaca/2013/12/10/Raffaele-Sollecito-Tropici_9755906.html

It explains how he is setting up there for the long term and mentions the town he is hanging out in, Bayahibe, which is along the coast east of Santo Domingo.

Funding may be from his book or the same dopey supporters who are paying (for now till they too get charged) the way for Frank Sforza.

Its not clear that he had a lot of available cash in Italy though he and Vanessa own a couple of properties which could be seized to pay his civil damages if he is found guilty.

Perps very rarely manage to stay on the lam for a lifetime. He will come to miss greatly his family, and suffer under an Interpol Code Red arrest warrant.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/11/13 at 12:28 PM | #

By the way try googling Bayahibe + mafia.

We know that mafia fellow-travelers are supporting the PR campaign to bring Italian justice down a peg.

The mafia has Bayahibe in its clutches. Here is one report.

http://dominicanwatchdog.org/dominican_news/page-Russian,_Italian_mafias_take_root,_Dominican_official_warns

Posted by Peter Quennell on 12/11/13 at 12:35 PM | #

Very interesting and eye-opening, Peter, thank you! This feller probably thinks he’s the next Joran van der Sloot, and he probably is! He probably believes Joran was too stupid to kill again, otherwise he wouldn’t have had to spend a lot of time in prison, and probably thinks he’ll get out of this tight spot somehow (how exactly?) I don’t think he’ll set foot in Italy except wearing an Interpol bulletproof vest, and I wouldn’t be surprised if his own lawyers bail at some point.

Posted by Bjorn on 12/11/13 at 04:08 PM | #

We have no idea if Knox actually experienced abuse when she was a child and of course there is absolutely no rule that survivors of abuse will become perpetrators themselves some day .But I do think that some might. There is no doubt that survivors are permanently damaged and traumatized and might even go on to suffer all their lives.Of course they might develop PTSD , eating disorders like anorexia or bulimia or even depression and suicidality.

I really couldn´t say whether Knox is a survivor or not but what one can discern without a doubt is the consistent pattern of rejection she has been subjected to all her life. First from her father, then from her peers at school ( she came from an economically lower stratum that most of the kids at Seattle Prep, she used to hang out with the less popular or ostracized students or manga-kids , forerunners of Sollecito perhaps) , then by Meredith and the other smart students in Perugia to the point of becoming an outcast there ( she was rather a pariah) . I think that maybe she wanted revenge against the society that had cast her out.

Posted by aethelred23 on 12/11/13 at 07:30 PM | #

@Peter Quennell,

Thanks for taking interest in my comment, and for giving context to Dr Sollecito’s and his son’s relationship. I didn’t know Raffaele had been living away from his family before going to college. Didn’t that make him feel like an outcast in his own family ? No more mother, living away from his father…

@chami & Peter

I feel the level of Dr Sollecito’s control of his son just before the crime was extreme.

Maybe it was to make good for previous times where that control was inexistant ? Or erratic ? Children needing structure often means parents who are too lax, or who alternate between severity and laxness without it making sense to the children.

I was told the lack of structure for children is a common feature of very rich households. I have no experience of such homes, so it’s only hearsay, and Knox wasn’t born in a well-off family…

Anyway, if that level of control was what Dr Sollecito was aware his son needed (since he did put him in a school for children of doctors needing structure), letting him live alone was a mistake.

In France, there are student boarding houses, linked to religious organizations, which give students who need it a sense of security and home : they pertain to the small community of the boarding house, where they can make friends, and there is crew to daily notice them and check on them, since there’s a curfew ; within the curfew other students can come and visit. I’m sure there are such boarding houses in Italy as well…

Someone who was acknowledged to need structure should not have been allowed to live alone (total freedom) with daily fatherly ringing (ineffective form of control, which only brings resentment).

Posted by Sylviane on 12/12/13 at 10:30 AM | #

@SeekingUnderstanding

Thanks for your nice feedback, and you’re welcome for mine wink. I mostly have the same impression with writing on the net. But complex points can get across, in forums like this where serious listening and thinking are encouraged. It may take several posts, though.

@chami

I totally agree with your opinion on why we’ve dissected Knox and not Sollecito.

@aethelred23

Survivors from childhood sexual abuse can either lead a normal life, or become further victimized in adulthood, or become abusers themselves.

As far as I’ve read, most female survivors left untreated end up being victimized in adulthood, some lead a normal life, and very few if any become abusers.

Male survivors left untreated are held to be more prone to becoming abusers than to be further victimized - but the data are skewed, because they’re obtained by asking sexual perps (who are mostly males) whether they were themselves abused, and sexual perps or other ciminals often claim they were, if that claim is perceived to lead to leniency towards their own crimes - there was a study somewhere on such over-reporting by criminals : it showed the amount of such claims sharply dropped after all appeals to the sentence had been exhausted.

Male survivors who have led a normal life, or who have been further victimized, are likely to go entirely under the radar, because disclosing one has survived childhood sexual abuse is even more traumatic for males than for females.

So there’s really no statistical reason to think of Knox as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, just because she commited an horrible sexual crime. There would be more statistical reason to wonder that of Sollecito - yet, such suspicion has fallen on Knox alone.

So thanks aethelred23, on behalf of survivors, to recognize that there is nothing “glaringly survivor-ish” (my words) in convicted murderess Amanda Knox. It’s heartwarming.

Posted by Sylviane on 12/12/13 at 11:10 AM | #

I also think that neither Knox nor any other murderer need necessarily have experienced sexual abuse in order to become violent. My personal explanation for Knox´s evil has rather a lot more to do with my second theory .I recently had a chat about school shootings and about the characters of those who carried them out. Someone proposed that there “is a high evidence that school shootings were regularly committed by a psychopath who had been cast out from society.“Take the Columbine boys ,for instance. They deliberately and murderously decided to take revenge against their school and ultimately the entire community.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV7qca3gbOw
But maybe it´s not appropriate to compare the Columbine boys to Knox and Sollecito.

Posted by aethelred23 on 12/12/13 at 07:25 PM | #


Make a comment

If you are reading this please log in to post a comment.

Smileys



Where next:

Click here to return to The Top Of The Front Page

Or to next entry The Rise And Fall Of “Frank Sfarzo” And How “Sfarzogate” Ripples On And On

Or to previous entry Note For Strasbourg Court & State Department: Knox Herself Proves She Lies About Her Interrogation