Did The State Department Offer Assurances To Knox She Never Would Be Extradited?

Comments

Thank you Ergon

I hope the US diplomats were deeply embarrassed for saying “case closed”,  when it was hardly a secret that it was a multi-level trial and it wouldn’t be over till the signing off by the Supreme Court.

I’m sure they were indeed glad to see of a thorny case closed (they thought) but you wouldn’t normally expect such ignorance from diplomats, who are surely supposed to be more up to speed with Italian justice. Sounds like the cable was sent at the end of the day (on a Friday?) when they were anxious to leave to down some vino!

@Ergon, what marvelous credentials you have to analyze the extradition issue, with your father in the Pakistani Foreign Service and your many years involved with diplomats and the ambassadorial process. TJMK is incredibly lucky to have your insider knowledge of how Knox’s international extradition may work.

FOA is probably just floating rumor and innuendo using wishful thinking and PR tactics when they handwave away the chance of Knox being shipped back to Italy for prison, but how fortunate we are at the Meredith Justice site and PMFs that you can actually read diplomat-speak and search out the truth.

Hi Odysseus

See the breaking-news box at the top and the link to Andrea Vogt’s new report. The cable is there. Alternatively click here;

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/documents/perugia/2011USEmbassyCablefOctober11.pdf

It is dated 11 October which was nine days after Knox got sprung. The staff member’s name is not shown on the cable as it was sent to Washington in the Ambassador’s name (then Thorne).

We believe the staff member usually came from the consulate section, and usually from the Embassy in Rome, though there are American consulates in Milan, Florence, and Naples too.

The main purpose of consulates is to help out in travel work. They help their own nationals with visas and lost passports and small problems, and they help nationals of the country they are in to get work permits or vizas in turn.

Valuable work. But it doesnt require an advanced degree or law degree, and consulate staff are rather looked down upon by diplomatic staff. They are usually moved to another country every 2 or 3 years.

So I am not surprised at the wrongness of the cable. For whoever wrote that it may have been Day One.

However there actually is something strange in all of this which I hope Andrea Vogt gets her teeth into..

Usually, when drugs are involved in a local crime by an American national, the US consulates are not allowed by their rules to play any role. Knox herself never denied drug use, in fact she made it part of her defense.

So why did the consulates even monitor Knox? We dont know.

Such monitoring could have been three days work each month allowing for travel and 3 or 4 times that during the Massei trial. At a guess monitoring Knox would have cost $1000 a day in staff costs and hotels and travel and meals every time.

Make that $48,000 in 2008, $96,000 at least in 2009, $48,000 in 2010, and $96,000 in 2011, total close to $400,000 for monitoring, which US taxpayers had to pay, probably against rules as this was a case involving drugs.

Despite this very expensive overkill (how many other Italian trials are monitored?) I cannot see rotating consular officers as having any real grasp of what was going on. Nice people, but low-level grunts. Could be Italian junior staff.

Were they lawyers? Definitely not. Did they ask the prosecution or judges anything? Not to our knowledge. Did they ask Dalla Vedova and Ghirga? It seems so. But they are hardly the most neutral of advice.

All could be worth it if the State Department accepts that it has no paper trail showing anything done wrong and now helps to put the case to bed.

But the US taxpayer will have been severely ripped off if State now changes its tune. Note! A simple complaint by any American to the Inspector General or GAO about this cost and ceilings could come crashing down.

@ Pete:

“$400,000, for monitoring which US taxpayers had to pay - and for a case involving drugs.”

Is that why Knox didn’t argue-mitigation, in the beginning, that she was “under-the-influence”?

Was she told that drugs precluded US Diplomatic help?

Hi Cardiol

Good point. If the consulate was diligent it would have known. Monitoring the case anyway at such huge cost gave Knox an aura of “precious” she really did not deserve.

Knox used drugs as a key part of her defense right back on 6 November 2007 and throughout 2009. Sollecito too. But they seemed to me to try to calibrate how much and to what effect, especially after Knox’s drug dealer went down. Each hinted the other used more.

Of course claiming drug-use as a mitigating factor is always an option for any defense in court but almost always it falls on deaf ears or makes things worse.

My guess is the consular officer was always there because the Knox-Mellases had lobbied, but the K-Ms must have been disappointed when Andrea Vogt proved the monitoring showed nothing wrong.

Between this and Ergon’s great snoop and Andrea Vogt’s great snoop we may see State eagerly following the rules.

Then in future such American-Perp cases, Italy might be wise to include Drugs in the charges?

Ergon, thanks for your always intelligent and informative posts.

I believe from the point of view of the concerned staff that the comment “case closed” is quite normal and acceptable.

Once the citizen returns back to the country, the role of the embassy is over. Just try to see from their point of view.

For the same reason, I do not think any embassy staff attended the Florence trial because Knox was simply not there…

The time has finally come and I am confident that justice will be delivered…

Thanks,all. Diplomacy is a great and honorable way to represent national interests but also put a country’s best face forward.

I liken much of diplomatic work like an iceberg, 90 % below the surface. But even though it is invisible, it holds to those principles mentioned above.

I just could not believe in the end the State Department would abandon its national interests on behalf of Amanda Knox or risk its standing to protect a convicted murder. I am glad to have been able to confirm for myself that in the event of a conviction Secretary of State John Kerry would do his duty.

See part II coming up shortly for the question “Who Is The State Department Source?”

Thank you Ergon.  Great piece.

(Playing devil’s advocate here), Secretary Kerry would do more than just scorch U.S.-Italian relations.  Meredith is a British citizen, and her British family has said repeatedly they will push for extradition.  Blocking such a move would damage U.S.-U.K. relations as well, with a ripple effect throughout the European Union.  I am sure the Secretary knows this.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/amanda-knox-murdered-meredith-kerchers-5386732
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4389752.ece

And as you point out in the article, denying extradition would cause other major headaches abroad (such as getting Edward Snowden back).

There has also been the suggestion that Knox will hop the Washington/B.C. border to hide out in Canada.  Aside from being legally inadmissible due to her murder/sexual assault convictions, she would be unable to work legally up here.  Canada would definitely send her Italy if she were caught here.

Likewise if Knox flees to any other country, the U.S. (even if it wanted to), won’t have the authority to intervene.  If anything, other countries would be MORE inclined to extradite her since she is American.

As for your conclusions, the last is likely correct, the ‘‘anonymous source’’ is making it all up.  The ‘‘vague assurances’’ is also possible, if not all information was disclosed while making these inquiries.

Hi Cardiol, not sure how closely you follow what’s going on in the US, but to me drugs appear to be the new “cool” here, legislation is moving toward making them more readily available to the voting moronity—not surprising, considering that people who “did not inhale” were elected into office, and pictures surface now showing current “leaders” puffing like there was no tomorrow (sure enough, they made sure “tomorrow” is as screwed up as they thought it would be). Even better, there’s talk now of pot for pets, which would ensure Bo’s gonna get stoned just like Daddy.

This is a bit random, but if you have Netflix, check out Criminal Minds - Suspect Behavior, season 1, episode 10 (The Time is Now).  It’s on Netflix US, but if you have an account, there are some easy ways to surf other regions.

While the specifics of this fictional case are different, you may notice an eerie familiarity in the way the female suspect is constructed. I’m not saying she’s based on Knox per se, but I think this character and Knox may share certain psychological issues.

This series suffers from an awful lack of charisma compared to the main Criminal Minds series and the cases aren’t really as interesting, but this one is intriguing.

Thank you Ergon. And thank you Miriam.

I have a hard time believing Mr Kerry would      
comment while the case is ongoing. That would
breech policy. lol

Tick Tock

I look forward to many TV shows based on the psychological profiles of the three accused one day, Vivianna. At this point people are just a little constrained, but who knows after Wednesday?

Wow! an Exclusive story in today’s Daily Mail (March 23, 2015) shouts headlines that Amanda Knox’s supporters expect a guilty verdict by the Supreme Court this week. Dr. Mark Waterbury is quoted at great length lamenting the likelihood of such a guilty verdict, and blaming it on “the judicial truth” established at Rudy’s trial, the truth of multiple attackers.

Jim Clemente uses the term “farce”, and offers to wade into the fray if the farce gets further protracted. He is a lawyer.

Then “Italian writer” Frank Sfarzo claims in typical hyperbole that all of Italy now views Sollecito as innocent, even the most conservative who thought them guilty, because the scientists have spoken. Sfarzo thinks there’s an “80 percent” chance the guilty verdict will be overturned. He is quoted at length.

Photos of Amanda at her most bedraggled wearing red and black with boots and no makeup in recent February photo accompany the story, with head shots of Guede and Raffaele, and large photos of Meredith (she is always lovely).

Waterbury, who lives near the Mellox crowd in Seattle, says that he told them Knox is probably going to be found guilty, but that the family is not at all worried about it because they believe she will never be extradited.

I read that Daily Mail article.  After reading the history and antics of Frank Sfarzo here, it seems like a big joke on Daily Mail that they would quote him as having credibility. 

Also thought it laughable that they have Knox as engaged to James Terrano:

“New life: Amanda Knox is now engaged to her childhood friend James Terrano and the two live in Seattle”

@ Bjorn: my Comment that Italy might be wise to include Drug-Charges, if relevant to the other charges against American Perps, was stimulated by Pete’s Comment re US consulates not being allowed by their rules to play any role helping Americans accused of breaking the Drug Laws of & in Foreign Countries.

Are you suggesting that any such US Consulate Rules may soon be discontinued?

Hi Cardiol, I am very removed from diplomacy and consular workings (as is probably evident), I respect what you and Peter are saying, but yes, I see the rules changing, how fast depends on how degenerate the elected official is.

Where next:

Or to next entry Justice System Comparisons #3: Bail, Extradition, and More Crimes Under Common Law

Or to previous entry Rare Case Where Extradition To Italy Was Refused Has Been Reversed By Brazil