Wednesday, March 25, 2015

Supreme Court Appeal By RS And AK Against Florence Court Rejection Of Their First Appeal

Posted by The TJMK Main Posters



Above: stock image on another day of the Supreme Court’s Great Hall

Tweets from the court

New tweets from the court are all being added under the various author’s names below. This will continue Friday for sure.

Any breaking news

13. Court is over for the day and will resume on Friday.

12. La Nazione reports: “The judgment of the Supreme Court on the murder of Meredith Kercher will not arrive before Friday 27, the day when the judges will meet in closed session. This was announced by the President of the Fifth Criminal Chamber of the Supreme Court, Gennaro Marasca, during today’s hearing.”

11. We dont know the local telephone network capacity there. But many cellphone transponders can handle only 24 calls at a time. Demand for “outside lines” could number in the hundreds from the entire court. Maybe there’s an open WAN but we doubt.

10. Regardless of outcome Knox legal problems could go on for years. Since 2009 she has faced calunnia charges for lying on the stand. Possible sentence six years. Now Florence court has added calunnia charges for lying in her book, in Oggi, on her website, and on American TV. Perception going back to Ricciarelli is she is dangerous and hurts people, even if final murder verdict is not in.

9. Popper says of Dr Pinelli: “In his late 50s (a young man ref Cassazione average), a career both in Abruzzo region (Avezzano where he was born in 1957) and L’ Aquila, and then Naples in the Procura Generale; then promoted to Cassazione. Very much acquainted with murders and organised crime.”

8. Popper says of Dr Marasca: “Section President of Cassation [one of the few] and member of Consiglio Direttivo, a sort of Executive Board of the Supreme Court ... one of the most experienced magistrates in Italy, born in 1944. Since 1970 a magistrate.”

7. News service ANSA: “The head judge is Gennaro Marasca. The lead prosecutor is Mario Pinelli. After the prosecutor has spoken it will be the turn of Maresca (for the Kerchers). Then they’ll hear from Bongiorno and Maori, Ghirga and Dalla Vedova”.

6. New report with today’s date from Barbie Nadeau on the CNN Website. Seems CNN like most US media no longer solidly in Knox camp.

5. The Court has placed a ban on live tweeting from inside the courtroom, where mobile phone reception is poor anyway. Reports will come during the breaks.

4. Best guess at timing of decision is late PM US East Coast time. In 2013 it came the next day.

3. As with previous court outcomes, expect long-form analyses of outcome by Machiavelli etc within the next few days.

2. New York Times’s Elisabetta Povoledo provides a good overview of today’s context.

1. See our own scenario for today and coming weeks in the event the Florence verdict and sentences is confirmed.

Tweets from journalist Andrea Vogt

1. Raffaele Sollecito is here in court, speaking with his lawyer Giulia Bongiorno. #amandaknox lawyers and Patrick Lumumba also present.

2. Cannot tell how the court is leaning. Reviewer made hurtful and helpful comments to both sides. Still could go either way. #amandaknox

3. Court pres Gennaro Marasca calls break until 2:30. PG Mauro Pinelli has another hour of arguments. Arguments & ruling could be Friday

[break for lunch]

4. There is a sense among some observers that the Court is differentiating between positions of amanda knox and raffaelle Sollecito.

5. Maresca: I am representing the Kercher family in court for the 8th time. I hope this will be the last arguments I give on their behalf.

6. Maresca: It is time for the Kercher family to finally be able to remove this poor victim from the law courts.

7. Ghirga: “its not that we want to blame the poor black guy, its that you cannot rule out a single aggressor.”

8. Lawyer Luciano Ghirga: The scientific evidence favors #amandaknox (no trace of her in the murder room).

9. Carlo dalla Vedova has launched a blistering attack on the state of Italian justice system and the problem of “the neverending trial.”

10. Dalla Vedova for #amandaknox: How can we tolerate in Italy that trials can go on forever?

11. Hearing over for the day. Raffaelle Sollecito’s defense will continue Friday, march 27.

12. Ghirga: “its not that we want to blame the poor black guy, its that you cannot rule out a single aggressor.”

13. Lawyer Luciano Ghirga: The scientific evidence favors #amandaknox (no trace of her in the murder room).

14. Carlo dalla Vedova has launched a blistering attack on the state of Italian justice system and the problem of “the neverending trial.”

15. Dalla Vedova for #amandaknox: How can we tolerate in Italy that trials can go on forever?

16. Hearing over for the day. Raffaelle Sollecito’s defense will continue Friday, march 27.

Tweets from main poster Kristeva

1. I have arrived outside Section V. Sollecito, father and Greta. Poor [cellphone] reception.

2. Spoke to Avv. Maori & asked him who general prosecutor is and he doesn’t know yet. there are 2.

3. Andrea Vogt has just arrived and speaking to Avv. Ghirga

4. American British Journalists are all talking to Avv Dalla Vedova now.

[court session starts]

5. Relator Judge P. A. Bruno laughs once and while getting names wrong such as Hallowo instead of Halloween.

6. Prosecutor finds Rudy’s climbing up wall 4 numerous times “crazy”

7. Paolo Antonio Bruno knows the case extremely well without ever looking at his notes.

[court breaks for lunch]

8. Prosecutor has ended. He asked without remand 28.3 yrs #amandaknox and 24.9 for #raffaelesollecito

9. Bongiorno has asked to speak on Friday so most likely verdict will be then.

10. Pacelli now on civil case for Patrick Lumumba

11. Maresca has now concluded. Confirms all points made by Nencini, the general prosecutor and Galati

12. Maresca was brief and concise and said that after 8 years he hopes this is the last time he has to make same arguments

13. Maresca says that everything asked by #amandaknox and #RaffaeleSollecito has already been asked at Perugia and Florence trial.

14. Maresca makes a big point about pages re Conti & Vecchiotti and calls them on their lie.

Tweets from main poster Machiavelli

1. Reporting Judge at SC for the Meredith case is Antonio Paolo Bruno.

2. The Prosecutor General is Mario Pinelli. President Judge is Gennaro Marasca.

3. PG said the Florence sentence “respects the indications set by the Cassazione”

4. PG: says courts, based on findings “correctly established that the theft was staged”.

5. PG: court “pointed out correctly” that there was a staging “in order to side-track investigation”

6. PG: “3 people attacked the victim” and “there was no fight” unless you mean “attempts to defend herself by restrained victim”

7. PG: Florence decision not to repeat computer analysis on Sollecito’s laptop is “not censurable”

8. Sollecito reported nervous when PG observes computer data defence objections are irrelevant to alibi.

9. PG: Florence refusal to order anthropometric investigation on CCTV images is “adequately motivated”

10. Pinelli: phones removed because by “ringing in the home” may have caused early discovery of the crime.

11. Judge Bruno (like Zanetti) had said the trials had “not many certainties” beyond the girl’s death and one definitely convicted.

12. PG Pinelli said some minor charges have expired, thus Florence should re-assess penalties with slight reduction due time limitation laws.

13. Antonio Paolo Bruno is the Supreme Judge who was accused of conspiracy with Mafia by prosecutor DeMagistris in 2006.

14. Pinelli asked 3 months cut from both penalties (weapon carrying). But this cut may technically require intervention by Florence court.

15. Maresca says that everything asked by #amandaknox and #RaffaeleSollecito has already been asked at Perugia and Florence trial. Enough.

16. Maresca makes a big point about pages re Conti & Vecchiotti and calls them on their lie.

Tweets from journalist Barbie Nadeau

1. Judge confirms verdict will be Friday in #MeredithKercher case.

2. Prosecutor in #AmandaKnox case asks to trim 3 months off Knox’s 28 year 6 month sentence.

3. Reason for shaving 3 months off sentence in #AmandaKnox case is statute of limitations in theft charge.





Comments

Kristeva and others may still tweet. Reporters go in and out all day.

The big stories will come later.

Posted by Ergon on 03/25/15 at 09:22 AM | #

True. At the (very modern) Florence court Machiavelli sometimes had to walk quite a distance. There seemed only phone internet connections, no open wide area network like Starbucks etc have.

We dont know the local telephone network capacity there. But many cellphone towers can handle only 24 calls at a time. Demand for “outside lines” could number in the hundreds from the entire court.

Important. The Italian system is always fighting the risk of bad reporting and jumping the gun. That is why its official documents are only released electronically (if at all) in Acrobat format and not in say MS Word.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/25/15 at 10:05 AM | #

I’m seriously worried about Bruno’s use of the word “certain” .

Hellmann & Zanetti’s use of “certain” revealed their biased perspective.

Is “not certain” now Bruno’s equivalent to “not beyond a reasonable doubt.

The lower Courts were required to decide only what is true beyond a reasonable doubt.

If the Court reached its decisions only on the basis of certainties how much could it ever decide?

Posted by Cardiol MD on 03/25/15 at 01:49 PM | #

People were very nervous just before the Supreme Court annulled Hellmann’s acquittals. The FOA lunatics were certain that his verdicts would be confirmed. Barbie Nadeau gave the impression this could happen. I’m not concerned.

Posted by The Machine on 03/25/15 at 01:54 PM | #

So the court has adjourned @6PM. Will hear Sollecito defense and verdict Friday @9AM

It’s been a good day.

Posted by Ergon on 03/25/15 at 02:27 PM | #

Yummi (Machiavelli) is going to process this. He may hold off until Friday is done.

Knox’s team have a huge weakness: the highly erratic ever-talkative very narcisstic tin-eared Knox herself. She was the only one with a motive for the attack, and almost certainly the one who delivered the final blow (seemingly to the continuing annoyance of the other two) and since, callous in the extreme

And it gets worse.

Sollecito (with Gumbel) is in a Florence court on fairly limited charges (his main crime was saying prosecution might have done a deal).

In contrast Knox will be in a Florence court for (1) the calunnia on the stand in 2009 (during her other calunnia trial, you just cant make this stuff up!), (2) the book, where she very directly accuses Dr Mignini and many others by names of crimes, (3) her website, where she does the same, and (4) her numerous false claims on American TV.

Even just guilty on (1) could cost her 6 years as she has gone the calunnia road before. This will be known to the members of the court. And her loons have come up with the idea that Guede smartly took off and separated and set some train in motion and she got caught in the wheels of that. A victim, no less.

Really? Do they KNOW why Guede separated in 2008? it was because of the huge and very public threat that they would tie the bell to him. They caused him to do that. This Guardian reported this:

Claims have been made of a pact between Knox and her Italian former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 24. It is alleged their lawyers have agreed to work together to blame the murder on Rudy Guede, 21, a part-time gardener from the Ivory Coast and the third accused.

Now, Guede’s lawyers are threatening to call for a separate trial for him alone - well away from the legal teams of the other two whom they fear could prejudice his case.

It is a pact, says Guede’s lawyer Walter Biscotti, that can be traced back to July when Sollecito sent Knox a bouquet of yellow flowers on her 21st birthday which both celebrated in prison.

There is a clear desire to make Rudy the guilty party, and it’s clear they will try anything,’ Biscotti said.

They were framing him, for the whole attack. And again and again at trial in 2009 they tried to pin that on Guede’s back, with all those supposed witnesses on break-ins and stuff - and he wasnt even in court! He had no way to defend against that.

So how were Guede and his process the unfair ones here? The loons have that totally back to front. Another loser in the works.

So Bongiorno has two days to do the opposite of whatever it was the feckless Della Vedova and Ghirga did today. I’d say Sollecito has a certain edge. Nencini might find his next role is to chop RS’s sentence down by X years.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/25/15 at 02:52 PM | #

There are no new elements presented by the accu(r)sed, only different girlfriends/boyfriends and hairstyles, anybody would look less innocent now than they did 8 (!!!) years ago, the Supreme Court should stick to its guns, get it over with, and send these idiots back to prison where they belong. Basta!

Posted by Bjorn on 03/25/15 at 03:27 PM | #

I can’t believe we are finally at this date.  It has taken so many years.  Sollecito is back to his long-haired style of the time of the murder - strange choice.

Posted by believing on 03/25/15 at 03:54 PM | #

Further to the comment above on AK being on a losing streak, Kermit had emailed this remark about what Knox could have done if her angry dad had just calmed down.

Knox right now is probably wishing 1) that her parents hadn’t shushed her up at the beginning and that she could have simply blurted out the truth to Mignini, and 2) that she would have opted for the fasttrack trial, accepted her fate and been able to plan on getting out of jail with still years available to start a new life and have a “normal” family. Of course, it’s too late for hindsight now.

My guess is Edda Mellas maybe could agree with this.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/25/15 at 06:09 PM | #

Beyond A Reasonable Doubt” briefly became an issue today after Judge Bruno made a somewhat weird remark.

Here Yummi and James Raper explained at length how Article 533 works.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/reasonable_doubt_in_italian_law/

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/25/15 at 06:53 PM | #

Pete,  Re your above Comment on 03/25/15 at 06:53 PM:

“Beyond A Reasonable Doubt” briefly became an issue today after Judge Bruno made a somewhat weird remark.”

Thanks for directing readers to a Missing-Link in my Knight’s-Move-In-Thought on 03/25/15 at 01:49 PM wrt my serious worries about Judge Bruno’s use of the word “certain” when he said that “the trials had “not many certainties” beyond the girl’s death and one definitely convicted”.

Posted by Cardiol MD on 03/25/15 at 08:22 PM | #

Welcome! I was, indeed, responding in a below-the-radar way to that, and to emails and to PMF dot Net and to PMF dot Org. Yummi in an email and later on PMF dot Org said Judge Bruno had kinda self-corrected as he went on. Nice judge, nice judge…

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/25/15 at 08:48 PM | #

The media are out in full force in Rome, it’s a circus. Andrea Vogt great as usual. Kristeva nice tweets, also Popper and Machiavelli are sharing great stuff. Judge Pinelli sounds sharp. He says the courts have accepted a staged burglary.

Maresca in good form keeping it short and strong, no fluff. Poor Attorney Ghirgha and Carlo dalla Vedova haven’t got a leg to stand on with ditzy client Knox.

It’s grand that Lumumba is standing there in Supreme Court as living proof Knox is a liar and that when push comes to shove, she shoves others like she did Meredith.

Raffaele almost seems in love with the microphone in some photos, attention the aphrodisiac. Greta is showing her poor judgment by showing the world her choice of boyfriend is a potential killer of females. She and all of the defendants would do well to spend the hours before Friday morning verdict over at some of the Roman churches lighting candles and praying for mercy on their sorry selves.

Steve Moore and Nina Burleigh along with Chris Cuomo are on TV interview [ http://t.co/ReivJcFZIV ] and Steve said something that seemed especially odd.

He said it would be GOOD if the Supremes enter a guilty verdict so that Amanda can take the case then to the International court and get it thrown out. Is there some fine point he’s making that eludes me? On the surface it sounds patently ridiculous that he should wish for his sweetheart a guilty verdict from Cassation. He is terrified it may be the case and said he would fall off his chair if it didn’t rule for guilt. He called Cuomo’s opinion “uneducated” which sparked a personal volley of self-defense from Cuomo, albeit a civilized one. Steve Moore goes so far as to say the Italian justice system has perpetrated a “cover up”.

Amanda’s attorney Carlo dalla Vedova says she is very very worried and not sleeping much. She needs to be praying, too. “Thy will be done”. Maresca calls for an end to trials and appeals, that 8 times he has stood before the court for the Kercher family. He hopes he won’t have to do it any longer. If the Sollecito clan get any sleep in Rome it will be due to doubling up on Valium or Ambien perhaps. What a stress bomb.

No doubt Amanda’s latest squeeze and fiancé young Colin can procure her some relaxing smokes and hold her hand while strumming guitar with the other if Knox can remove the earphones that she’s wearing to listen to heavy metal kill music or Kurt Cobain or H.O.T.

Steve is probably listening to country western in between sobs and Red Bull.

Sometimes you have to go through hell before you get to heaven.

Posted by Hopeful on 03/25/15 at 11:03 PM | #

So Stevie is playing another desperation card. Or perhaps playing another “I told you so.” it would seem that no matter what the verdict is they want to show they did their level best therefore they can remain relevant and on the payroll of any future interviews.

Posted by Grahame Rhodes on 03/25/15 at 11:16 PM | #

Hopeful, could you please send a link? [ http://t.co/ReivJcFZIV ]

Perhaps Mr. ‘‘Secret Agent Man’’ is referring to the International Criminal Court, based in the Hague (the Netherlands).  This is supposed to deal with human rights abuses.  If that is the case, it would be amusing. 

-The I.C.C. is governed by the Rome statue.
-The United States doesn’t recognize I.C.C. as legitimate.
-Considering the I.C.C. deals with genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, etc…. bringing Knox there would be a farce.
-Knox’s complaint to the European Court of Human Rights for her calunnia conviction was insulting enough.
-Even if this is successful, is having the case broadcase publicly in the world court (and the evidence), really in Knox’s best interests?

http://www.preventgenocide.org/law/icc/statute/part-a.htm
http://www.icc-cpi.int/en_menus/icc/about the court/Pages/about the court.aspx
https://www.globalpolicy.org/us-un-and-international-law-8-24/us-opposition-to-the-icc-8-29.html

Sadly, you are right that Sollecito is addicted to the attention. A human being might be more concerned about destroying Vanessa’s, (his sister), career, bankrupting his father, and causing the family years of embarrassment.  Seriously, all he has accomplished in his life is helping Knox snuff someone out.  He didn’t even write his ‘‘own’’ blood-money book.

Dalla Vedova and Ghirga are a sideshow to watch.  Of course, they have to draw attention, as their client couldn’t be bothered to show up for HER OWN APPEAL.  Again.

Lumumba appears but Knox doesn’t.  She is too much of a coward to face him again.

Thank you to everyone for all their efforts.  Justice soon!

Posted by Chimera on 03/26/15 at 12:18 AM | #

A link is added above to a video of the Chris Cuomo segment Hopeful referred to. CNN usually also comes out with a transcript. Here it is also:  http://t.co/ReivJcFZIV

Heres the Machine on PMF about it.

Nina Burleigh was lying through her teeth when she claimed she’s read all the court documents. She couldn’t even get the date of Meredith’s birthday right. Steve Moore looks close to having a nervous breakdown.

He’s right re Burleigh and the docs, she speaks zero Italian.

Heres 2 comments by Skeptical Bystander

This is what I felt as well. Indeed, neither of them made any arguments in defense of their positions - it’s a cover-up, according to Moore, while, according to Burleigh, it’s kind of a face-saving retreat behind the old Satanic ritual saw. Whatever that means… She and her team looked at everything, she said, a little too defensively, I thought, but she was unable to share any insight that might have come of this looking. The entire segment was in fact devoid of content. It was just uncomfortable blather with an occasional buzzword thrown in. People who know nothing about the case would have learned nothing from watching the dog and pony show that is Moore and Burleigh. One funny thing: Cuomo asked Burleigh if she agreed with Moore and you could almost see how much it pained her to say yes. That was funny!

***

Actually, Nina and Steve were a study in contrasts: he looked all windblown, sloppy, greasy and kind of puffy. And that hair! Someone needs to take him aside and tell him it’s a great look for a 12-year old. Nina, in the studio, was stiff-backed, dry and tight-lipped. I thought maybe she was weighted down by all the red lipstick and hair spray. Yes, that is a bitchy remark to make but I keep thinking about all her unkind comments about other women in her stupid book and then I say she has it coming. It would not matter at all except that she really had nothing of substance to say and seemed very defensive. I maintain that even she is uncomfortable with that figure of fun Steve Moore as an ally. That’s just plain embarrassing!

Heres Pataz:

Almost every single statement they made was coded with “conspiracy” in it. This is why you have commentators from different point of views; instead CNN puts on two people that say the exact same thing using different language.

Moore-
‘the fix is in’
‘go ahead and convict her again’
‘she was told before hand what verdict was going to be’
‘go to echr and get this thing thrown out’
‘no way she’s guilty’
‘courts can say anything they want’
‘nothing they said about her is true’
‘what they’re saying is a lie’
‘i’ll use the word coverup’

nina-
‘magistrates pride’
‘protecting themselves’
‘italy has laws directed to those who criticize judges’
‘journalists cannot use words like coverup’
‘there is bias, national, legal, gender
‘problems with the police work’

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/26/15 at 06:52 AM | #

Re the Andrew Cuomo panel on CNN that Hopeful linked to with amusement, and that Chimera expanded upon, and in particular Steve Moore’s bluster.

Steve Moore is quite wrong on, well, everything, but especially on Knox’s prospects for an overturn at the ECHR.

Knox was NOT interrogated and NOT abused and NOT denied a lawyer and Knox was given SIX chances prior to trial to seek dropping of the charges and release then.

See our ongoing Interrogation Hoax series which Moore needs to get a grip on if he is not to appear to be obstructing justice on Andrew Gumbel lines.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C748/

See these ECHR Strasbourg posts which Moore also needs to get a grip on if he is not to appear to be obstructing justice on Andrew Gumbel lines

Kermit: http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/amanda_knox_lies_again_to_get_herself_into_another_european_court/

James Raper: http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/note_for_strasbourg_court_and_state_department_/

Finn MacCool http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/multiple_provably_false_claims_about_false_confession/

Peter Quennell:  http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/human_rights_group_human_rights_watch_gives_an_approving_nod_to_italy/

Regarding the ICC in the Hague, Italy effectively used a threat of involving it (which Chimera correctly pointed out was evolved in Rome!) against Brazil to get back the mafia guy on the run there.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/rare_case_where_extradition_to_italy_was_refused/

Unfortunately its legitimacy is clouded. Most of its cases have been about Africa whereas HR transgressions occur everywhere. The US doesnt want to be part of it because CIA torture etc could make the US a target.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/26/15 at 09:30 AM | #

Here is a good report on yesterday’s proceedings:

http://www.latimes.COM/world/europe/la-fg-italy-knox-20150325-story.html

Also Mr. Eric Paroissien just uploaded a short news clip of Ghirga and Bongiorno from right out in front of the Supreme Court:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2kn6l4_giulia-bongiorno-25-03-2015_school

Posted by Johnny Yen on 03/26/15 at 10:01 AM | #

Also a short but useful update (March 26) by Andrea Vogt which included these two observations.

http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featured/amanda-knox-appeal-2/

One of the options open to the court is, in fact, to uphold convictions but request that the sentences terms be revisited. The court could also opt to uphold one and send another back down to appeal.

The president of the court, Gennaro Marasca, appeared to know the case files very well and occasionally corrected the lead reviewer on material facts and small details.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/26/15 at 10:25 AM | #

@Peter,

You quoted

“Claims have been made of a pact between Knox and her Italian former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 24. It is alleged their lawyers have agreed to work together to blame the murder on Rudy Guede, 21, a part-time gardener from the Ivory Coast and the third accused.

Now, Guede’s lawyers are threatening to call for a separate trial for him alone - well away from the legal teams of the other two whom they fear could prejudice his case.

It is a pact, says Guede’s lawyer Walter Biscotti, that can be traced back to July when Sollecito sent Knox a bouquet of yellow flowers on her 21st birthday which both celebrated in prison.”

If this is true, I mean potentially provable, then it is clearly a case fit for “perversion of justice” and the lawyers are not really immune. Your thoughts?

Posted by chami on 03/26/15 at 10:35 AM | #

Eric just uploaded another short news clip of Knifeboy (no comment) and Bongiorno blabbing away about “no certainties” et al:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2knqnn_giulia-bongiorno-02_school

For Bongiorno to create any doubt about RS and a possible retrial for him, she will have to brand AK as THE killer along with RG as her accomplice. She briefly suggests that in this other courthouse news clip translated by Eric:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2kn6l4_giulia-bongiorno-25-03-2015_school

It should be very, very interesting when she speaks tomorrow in court!

Posted by Johnny Yen on 03/26/15 at 12:31 PM | #

According to her lawyers Knox is not engaged and not trying to get pregnant. But, they are up to some other dirty tricks:

“However, it has now been revealed Knox’s lawyers have turned to the European Court of Human Rights in a last ditch attempt to stop the final ratification of her conviction for murder.”

“They have asked for the case to be suspended, pending the acceptance of her appeal to the European Court against a conviction for slander.”

Continued: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3010767/Foxy-Knoxy-s-ex-arrives-court-hear-fate-Italy-s-high-court-begins-appeal-hearing-duo-s-murder-conviction-Meredith-Kercher.html#ixzz3VVV2llOH

Posted by Johnny Yen on 03/26/15 at 12:47 PM | #

Hi Chami.

RS & AK colluding to obstruct justice? Sure! Look where that has got them. We will have to post on this as it is becoming the loons’ (hopefully) final-final-final contention point as they march backward to christmas.

Its a conspiracy theory called the “judicial truth theory” and its kind of what Kassin & Douglas claim about individuals being brainwashed, only on a grander legal scale.

Its in RS’s appeal doc. Italian officials think his whole appeal is nonsense. We will hear what Cassation think of it tomorrow. It’s beyond the limited explanatory skills of the Moores and Burleighs. Here it is, garbled, from a blowhard called Clemente:

‘I’m afraid because of a “legal fiction” they’re going to continue with this result. It’s “legal fiction” because they have been working on the evidence that Amanda and Raffaele worked with Guede to kill Meredith Kercher and they’ve never been allowed to defend themselves against it.

What???!!! They had years to do so. The Lone Wolf theory was a total failure. The perception that it was a pack attack was first a part of the official scenario after the autopsy and bedroom analyses late in 2007.  Does Clemente not know that?

By then RS and Ak had already done themselves immense damage. Read Matteini and especially Ricciarelli and also Knox’s interview with Mignini. Does Clemente not know that?

From late 2007 Knox and Sollecito bashed one another for most of a year, before turning to bash Guede. They were both at Guede’s trial so OF COURSE they could defend themselves from it. Micheli simply rejected their claims as lies, and sent them off to their own trial.  Does Clemente not know that?

They bashed Guede mercilessly at trial with various witnesses WHEN HE WAS NOT EVEN PRESENT. Does Clemente not know that?

And then at the Hellmann appeal they brought in Aviello - who actually testified it was two other people. Hellmann pushed on hastily andf Cassation told him off for it. Does Clemente not know that?

If he has one, Clemente should really not give up his day job.

We’ve also seen it pushed by a couple of wannabe defense lawyers, one called Fred Davies in England and one called John Henry Browne in Seattle. Their “facts” are riddled with errors.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/26/15 at 02:34 PM | #

Pete - re your 03/26/15 at 02:34 PM :

“RS & AK colluding to obstruct justice? Sure! Look where that has got them. We will have to post on this as it is becoming the loons’ (hopefully) final-final-final contention point as they march backward to christmas.

Its a conspiracy theory called the “judicial truth theory” and its kind of what Kassin & Douglas claim about individuals being brainwashed, only on a grander legal scale….................We’ve also seen it pushed by a couple of wannabe defense lawyers, one called Fred Davies in England and one called John Henry Browne in Seattle. Their “facts” are riddled with errors. “

Thanks for your ref. to Fred Davies. He is writing extensively on this Topic.

So far more than 44 Thousand words, an awful lot of Obfuscation to analyse, requiring a lot more than 44 Thousand words, because of its complex of selected omissions, imagined reasons to doubt, and repetitions.

Davies reveals his biases:

“On a personal note, it is still not clear to me how successive courts concluded, for example, that the testimony of certain prosecution witnesses was reliable and therefore true”

This strongly suggests to me that in spite of his apparent trial-lawyer license he has not benefitted-much from actual Court-Room experiences. He writes much like a semi-autistic apprentice, still in training.

In Court there is far more non-verbal information than verbal information, so his study, restricted to the verbal information in written materials is guaranteed to miss most of the information from “Being There”

There are thousands of involuntary, fleeting Facial Expressions which signal the reliability of oral Testimony. Mother Nature enables Finders-of-Fact to visually detect liars where the words they utter provide no signal at all, as in “It ain’t what you say; it’s the way that you say it”.

If Davies had such experiences, it would be clear to him how much is missing from the emotionless black and white record of the 2-D words in Transcripts and Reports. It would further be clear to him how successive courts concluded whether the testimony of certain witnesses was reliable and “therefore true” (beyond reasonable doubt - Davies’s 1st tiptoe into obfuscating omission).

Transcripts and Reports do not communicate the multiple 3-D Colour & Sound dimensions of “Being-There” - Who, Who is looking at Who, How, What, Why, When, Where, How Much….,: Demeanour, Body-Language, Gait, Facial-Expressions, Emotion, Loudness, Cadence, Timing, Pauses, Accent, Tone, & Yes - Odour/Scent!*

Each such experience is unique, varying in quality, degree, combination & sequence.

There are many relevant People & Things In the Court-Room, other than the 2 persons engaged in Q & A. The Transcripts, are restricted to black and white, 2-D Written-Words only, of Q, A, and Identified interrupters.

“Being-There” enormously enhances the ability of the Finders-of-Fact to reach explicable conclusions that the emotionless black and white written record of 2-D words alone cannot convey in their Silence & Blindness.

Posted by Cardiol MD on 03/26/15 at 04:45 PM | #

Hi Cardiol

Great insight. Court body language is always revealing. One reason these guys have got it wrong so badly is none realise that key components of the trial in 2009 were behind closed doors, including the two recreations of the 15-minute attack.

No way that was by a single burglar or sex fiend. Davies’s series is behind the paywall on a UK law journal’s website and we are waiting on his conclusions before commenting. Email any more input?

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/26/15 at 05:29 PM | #

@Peter: “components of the trial in 2009 were behind closed doors, including the two recreations of the 15-minute attack”

Thank you for re-iterating that, there was a moron just the other day bashing the “obsessed” and the “haters”, as in, you don’t really know what happened that night—> grounds for reasonable doubt, my eye.

I am wondering if those elements of the trial should not be released at some point, I simply don’t know what the bigger implications are, besides having to put up with the chorus of retards & failures who will always defend Amanda’s virginity.

Posted by Bjorn on 03/26/15 at 07:34 PM | #

I don’t understand why all of a sudden the defenders of RS and AK have decided that “yes” they will be convicted while all this time they were basically saying that the Supreme Court would have enough sense to see ‘their’ version of the truth. They really have back-peddled. As I have said before I think RS knew he would be going back to prison.

Posted by Vinnie on 03/26/15 at 11:02 PM | #

Hi Bjorn

I think you may know the “partially behind closed doors” was an accidental outcome at the start of 2009 (a “compromise” decided by Massei) which directly fed into what we see today - as you say, people pontificating that THEY have reasonable doubt (as if that is of the slightest legal relevance) based on way less than the full facts.

The video recreation was not ever released and nor was the testimony of the specialised team from Rome which analysed the room (it took them a whole day to describe what they adduced). The autopsy results did all or mostly come out. They made earlier translators very sad.

What cant even come out because it is gone is what Cardiol describes in his long post above: the impact of seeing the performances in court raw. Jurors were in tears on several days.

Knox and Sollecito became increasingly isolated and disdained, and had nowhere to look. For the trial jury in 2009 this was NOT a close call.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 03/27/15 at 12:28 AM | #

@Vinnie

Re Moore & Burleigh it’s a last minute vain attempt to protect themselves from perceived put-downs afterwards (when/if pro-justice people are shown to be right.)

This way, it’s a kind of hedging the bets, especially by giving spurious ‘reasons’ as to why it will be ‘Yes’.  Typical from insecurity and unsound thinking.

Interesting though as it means acknowledging, indirectly, that all the evidence (which ‘wasn’t there’) is, in fact, strong.

With RS, I suppose if he had really believed there was a hope that he wouldn’t have to go back - perhaps he would definitely have spoken up under oath during the Florence appeal, when Nencini kindly tried to ask him to?

If he’d (RS) thought it was in his own interest I can’t imagine that he wouldn’t have done.

One can only surmise that he imagined spilling some of the truth on cross-examination would consolidate the need for conviction. They seem to be operating on throwing up doubt and uncertainty, if they can.

Posted by SeekingUnderstanding on 03/27/15 at 12:35 AM | #

Tweet:
*************** @PaxVLilly
  ·  7m 7 minutes ago  
They say #RaffaeleSollecito will not be present to hear the verdict of the #Cassation

Posted by Ergon on 03/27/15 at 11:40 AM | #

the UK Telegraph is now reporting that British Foreign Secretary would expect extradition:

Philip Hammond, the Foreign Secretary, was in Washington today and was asked whether Britain would feel an obligation on behalf of the family of Meredith Kercher, the British victim in the case, to put pressure on the US to meet any extradition request expeditiously.

Mr Hammond was clear that the UK would expect the US to behave properly over the request, in keeping with international law.
“Sometimes the rules-based system delivers an outcome which you find inconvenient, and the test of our democracy and our commitment to the rule of law is that, when inconvenient things happen, we still comply with the rules.

“The British government does this all the time. We get court judgments that we don’t like, but we don’t try to dismiss the court judges, we accept the court’s judgment. So we will always be arguing for compliance with the rule of law.”

Posted by Media Watcher on 03/27/15 at 02:30 PM | #

Re the events of today, a very important message for all of you: http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/viewtopic.php?p=125702#p125702

Posted by Ergon on 03/27/15 at 08:39 PM | #


Make a comment

If you are reading this please log in to post a comment.

Smileys



Where next:

Click here to return to The Top Of The Front Page

Or to next entry Supreme Court Appeal By RS And AK Against Florence Court Rejection Of Their First Appeal #2

Or to previous entry So Is James Moninger The One Moonlighting As Anonymous Spokesman For Dept Of State?